Economic Viability of an R/C Track

[sundevil67]

Apologies to anyone who's suffered through similar rants from me in other forums.

I'm just tired of looking at my awesome 1/12 cars collecting dust on the shelf because there's nowhere to drive them anymore. I live in the most central location available in one of the fastest growing cities in the country, and have seen many, many tracks come and go since I've lived here. I can't think of another type of business with this kind of turnover. There is no longer any kind of on-road option in the entire state, and one 'serious' indoor off-road option left within a reasonable distance from the city center.

I've heard all kinds of reasons, from high rent to a consistent lack of business acumen among the folks drawn to these ventures, but it has to be more than that - something I'm not seeing. I'd like to hear from a former track owner/operator, or someone who has been on the inside of the process at some stage who might be willing to share their experience.

[Dirtdiver]

I’ve never owned a track but I’ve seen many open and close. It all comes down to economics. Tracks don’t generate the income needed to survive especially with everyone buying online instead of at the hobby store.

As for onroad racing goes, the cars are too fragile, fast and complex for your average racer which results in busted cars and disgruntled racers. You need a dedicated surface (expensive carpet) or clean/flat asphalt area which few are interested in investing in as the return is negative.

The average rc driver is a basher who wants to run on the street, a park or school yard and will probably never race. They are more interested in having fun by jumping/crashing and not breaking their vehicle, thus the popularity of trucks like the slash.

[sundevil67]

I agree 100% - as one of those people who has no interest in racing, but would happily pay to access a good track ... I have to believe there are also plenty of on-road enthusiasts with the same desire, or just don't want to spend the money & time to stay competitive... A comfortable place with nice people with similar interests, casual atmosphere that welcomes everyone, and has everything you need to have a fun day running your cars the way they were meant to be used... That's the angle that sounds like it'd appeal to more folks than organized racing.

If you're going to get into a business with this kind of failure rate, I'd expect new entrants into the market might try something a little different. Add a MiniZ track, a juice bar ..a patio with some TVs & a food truck out back? A "genius" bar just for the rookies, A "freestyle" area with huge ramps for in-air stunts, maybe some skate-park style structures in the parking lot if there's space, rookie track with stadium trucks to rent by the hour, ... maybe I dunno, just spitballing here, but I've also never been approached about any kind of recurring membership option. Maybe none of this stuff is feasible in practice & always easy to armchair quarterback this kind of stuff ... just saying that all of the tracks I've been to have essentially been the same, catering to a slice of the market & offering the same experience that's failing over & over.

At the more "serious" tracks, I have gotten a vibe that was not so friendly to youngsters or those with less experience or not committed to racing. I've even heard that this sort of high school drama actually contributed to the closing of a track in my area. I'm not saying that's true for all of them, but one would think by now there wouldn't be a whiff of that nonsense since it is so clearly detrimental to the hobby & keeping these places open. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that an on-site retail store would contribute to the bottom line anymore... but it could be a place where friendly experts provide repair & support to new drivers without the arrogance and condescension ... Look at Yelp reviews for local hobby shops now out of business or close to it. You'll find many unhappy customers who were looking for that kind of support, but wound up turned off to the hobby altogether.

I'm just annoyed that this still can't be figured out at this stage of the game. The hobby has matured so much... when I was growing up, we built a track up in the woods with snow shovels, brooms, and whatever tools we could find. That shouldn't still be the only way to drive on a track!

I’ve never owned a track but I’ve seen many open and close. It all comes down to economics. Tracks don’t generate the income needed to survive especially with everyone buying online instead of at the hobby store.

As for onroad racing goes, the cars are too fragile, fast and complex for your average racer which results in busted cars and disgruntled racers. You need a dedicated surface (expensive carpet) or clean/flat asphalt area which few are interested in investing in as the return is negative.

The average rc driver is a basher who wants to run on the street, a park or school yard and will probably never race. They are more interested in having fun by jumping/crashing and not breaking their vehicle, thus the popularity of trucks like the slash.

[1911Colt]

The biggest problem is social media. It groups similar people together and causes them to think they are a larger group than they really are. In reality, there aren't very many true RC car hobbyists. Catering to us is not a good business proposition. I just watched the video with Curtis from AE. Someone asked about bringing back such and such car and he replied that it costs $100k or 200k to bring a kit to market, and that it is hard to make that back. Hard for AE to cover $200k? This market must be tiny.

I read comments from folks around the world on a daily basis gushing about how they do love their RC10s (but not my Schumachers ) and I think I am part of a huge international movement. Then I realize it is the same 50 guys on every site and, in reality, I am in a cult that worships toy cars. So the mystery is not why do most tracks keep failing. The mystery is how any of them survive.

[sundevil67]

I dunno, in some ways I agree, but then I think about Kyosho bringing back obscure 1/12 models & not being able to even keep them in stock while I hear about the class being dead & buried... or the insane crowds at the RCX events I've been to out in LA ... the crowd roaring from the Traxxas demo at Supercross ... or the huge turnouts at local bash events around me. I just have to believe there are enough people to support a modest facility in a city like this, and why so many have attempted it ... question is why do they keep failing, and surely it's a combination of factors...

What's even crazier is that I can't even find a place with a 1/12 road course in SoCal that's not hours away from where I'll be.

I can say for sure that whenever there has been one, I didn't notice any advertising for it, and I'm someone who actively looks for this stuff. It's just disappointing.. I wish I had the means & stamina to try and start something myself, I know it's easy to bitch from the sidelines ... I'm just going to get really bored running my pan-cars in circles on the tennis court.

The biggest problem is social media. It groups similar people together and causes them to think they are a larger group than they really are. In reality, there aren't very many true RC car hobbyists. Catering to us is not a good business proposition. I just watched the video with Curtis from AE. Someone asked about bringing back such and such car and he replied that it costs $100k or 200k to bring a kit to market, and that it is hard to make that back. Hard for AE to cover $200k? This market must be tiny.

I read comments from folks around the world on a daily basis gushing about how they do love their RC10s (but not my Schumachers ) and I think I am part of a huge international movement. Then I realize it is the same 50 guys on every site and, in reality, I am in a cult that worships toy cars. So the mystery is not why do most tracks keep failing. The mystery is how any of them survive.

[jwscab]

Economics and attitude are everything.

I agree that there is limited middle ground between 'bashing' and 'hardcore racers'. Organized events while fun can be intimidating and there should be a better socialization of novice or sportsman classes. That's where people without much experience or limited knowledge can race without fast guys running up their asses. Often flexible in vehicle classes also, so run whatcha brung.

I think for typical events, there tends to be too many classes but since entry fees are the direct economic impact, the incentive is to have every minute filled with as many classes as possible.

The guys working the tracks have a tough job and usually practice hours revolve around their availability.

My viewpoint is one from a guy that enjoys the racing, but a full weekend can be exhausting. I can get cars around the track decently but neither consistent nor close to tq laps times.

[1911Colt]

Controlling costs helps. The carpet track near me was reasonably well attended but recently closed, presumably due to rent costs. To the contrary, though, there are at least 4 dirt ovals around me that are doing ok. 2 have the same owner on family land and 1 is in a city park. So the overhead on those 3 is practically nothing. I haven't been to the other one yet but I think it is on family land as well. Actually, I just remembered a 5th in Madison on a farm. I don't think anyone is trying to make a living from any of the tracks though. They are hobbyists themselves.

Hoosier Hobbyplex is also near me. They have a huge hobby shop and several national events each year, so no surprise they are doing well. The owners work very hard and aren't making the kind of money they could make for the same effort in another line of work (I say that based on the owner's comments).

[sundevil67]

No doubt it's not a business people get into to get rich ... but this isn't tracks not making much money, it's going out of business, over and over and over again... Not in bad locations or any other visible obvious reason that I could tell. The place right up the block from me used to host the Cactus Classic & other big events ... and shoot, OCRC out in Huntington Beach - couldn't believe that one closed.

It's interesting how I saw someone mentioned Paintball as a business with a similar track record. Sharing a space with the right kind of other business could be helpful too... . The last guy tried that here in a giant space at a dying mall, but didn't make good use of the extra space, had terrible customer service at the hobby shop end, etc. I also heard conflicting racers' egos helped kill it. On-road racing is definitely the more 'professional' slice of the hobby & requires more money and experience ... but that still shouldn't create cliques or an atmosphere that could keep casual folks like the teenagers & middle-aged nerds like me who want to run 1/10 buggies, etc.

I'd still really like to hear about some 1st hand experiences & get some idea of the specifics about common problems... i'm not running to the bank to ask for a loan to build a new track, but there could be a roundabout way I could do something to help the cause armed with the right info.

Controlling costs helps. The carpet track near me was reasonably well attended but recently closed, presumably due to rent costs. To the contrary, though, there are at least 4 dirt ovals around me that are doing ok. 2 have the same owner on family land and 1 is in a city park. So the overhead on those 3 is practically nothing. I haven't been to the other one yet but I think it is on family land as well. Actually, I just remembered a 5th in Madison on a farm. I don't think anyone is trying to make a living from any of the tracks though. They are hobbyists themselves.

Hoosier Hobbyplex is also near me. They have a huge hobby shop and several national events each year, so no surprise they are doing well. The owners work very hard and aren't making the kind of money they could make for the same effort in another line of work (I say that based on the owner's comments).

[RC10th]

Think of a tennis court, how can 2 - 4 people pay for the realestate plus utilities, rates, liability insurance etc?

Without some form of income to support a track or be part of an existing property I can't see it as a viable revenue stream, unless your wealthy enough to use it as a tax write off or donation..

Having said that I'd pay money to use a track if one was near me, and I've seen instances where a father son built a track on their property for them, which turned into a great little Sat night race venue/get together.

[LowClassCC]

Hoosier Hobbyplex is also near me.

Eddie and his family have put a lot of time into that track. The started with a backyard track on their property. They have came a long way in a short amount of time. And the time and knowledge his wife has with the shop and exactly where every item is located is nothing short of amazing.

I have a decent sized backyard track. I have zero interest in making a business out of the track. The costs that I have forked out to build the track so far is crazy especially considering I don't charge for people to run. there are a lot of costs that people don't think of when it comes to simply maintaining a track. I have my track for myself and my family. We enjoy seeing others getting started into the hobby. And I will always advise them that they should really race out at Hoosier because we need to support our local tracks.

[RCveteran]

The revenue you can generate for the space consumed as a business is a tough proposition to make work in the best case. This drives the locations into less densely populated areas feeding the problem more. Mix in catering to 15 fast guys who drive away 50 other normal people who would actually spend money rather than show up with their own hobby shop and well.......here we are.

I often thought a track would be better served to carve out 6 hours a week for the fast sponsored guys. They'd be happier and so would others. The rest of the time your goal is to get 100's of others, kids, parents, and whoever "racing" whatever they want spending money on food, coffee, video games and any other revenue stream you can extract while there. You would do this by viewing the RC track as a competitor for other things outside RC and trying to get normal people to view it as a place they want to spend hours and spend money. How much revenue can I generate per hour per person 8 hours a day, 7 days a week on average approach rather than a 50 guys showed up, 1/2 of which paid $15 to enter and nothing else.

Most people these days aren't committed to anything enough to give it a whole night or weekend. You want a revolving door of people showing up all the time just turning laps who say drop $25 every-time much like if they were going to a movie or out to eat for 2 hours a few times a week.

The "racing" carved out times are more of a service to the hardcore then, but still there. Almost like an adult swim time.

No idea if that would work, but by in large formula now doesn't either. You need a passionate owner (there are many) now who is willing to ignore how low they are paid hourly and do it as a labor of love. In today's expensive world that's a tough place for anyone to be.

[TokyoProf]

Instead of owning a track how about renting (or hosting for a few events in the year) RC events at a local county fairgrounds?
Perhaps proposing an RC event might be possible. I think someone was successful going about this method...don't remember who.
If the city gets involved somehow, and they see the utility of a trial RC event, that could lead to a few regular events in the year.

[stickboy007]

There is generally an inverse correlation between competitiveness and friendliness, for lack of a better term. Racing is intrinsically competitive. If you have a track geared toward beginners, you'll help people grow into better racers, but then eventually they outgrow your track and move elsewhere to seek out higher competition. That business model is only viable if you have a consistent influx of new racers and/or a loyal customer base who aren't trying to make it to IFMAR. If instead you gear the track for high competition, it is not always the most welcoming to new racers who will end up feeling like they're out of their element.

That is most likely a secondary point, though. The biggest one is the cost of real estate. Tracks are large and take up space. Interest rates are high now, which means both mortgages and rents are high. You either need to make enough money to compensate (bring in more racers, or charge more in registration, or sell Traxxas products like there's no tomorrow, to customers who don't have a clue) or own your own property, which is a tall ask.

Combine all of that with racer's fickle attitudes toward track conditions and you're basically asking a track owner to take on huge amounts of abuse so that other people can maybe have a good time (track owners themselves are usually too busy running the track to race....ironic, isn't it). The longest lasting track in my area is Barnstormers. It is literally a track on some farm land and has been around for over 30 years. I don't know all of the details, but likely privately owned. That's how I would do it if I had my own track. Buy my own property and do it my way so that nobody can push me around. If you want to race on it, great. If not, then I get the track to myself to play with. Would it be worth the investment? Depends on how rich I am.

[TokyoProf]

There is generally an inverse correlation between competitiveness and friendliness, for lack of a better term. Racing is intrinsically competitive. If you have a track geared toward beginners, you'll help people grow into better racers, but then eventually they outgrow your track and move elsewhere to seek out higher competition. That business model is only viable if you have a consistent influx of new racers and/or a loyal customer base who aren't trying to make it to IFMAR. If instead you gear the track for high competition, it is not always the most welcoming to new racers who will end up feeling like they're out of their element.

That is most likely a secondary point, though. The biggest one is the cost of real estate. Tracks are large and take up space. Interest rates are high now, which means both mortgages and rents are high. You either need to make enough money to compensate (bring in more racers, or charge more in registration, or sell Traxxas products like there's no tomorrow, to customers who don't have a clue) or own your own property, which is a tall ask.

Combine all of that with racer's fickle attitudes toward track conditions and you're basically asking a track owner to take on huge amounts of abuse so that other people can maybe have a good time (track owners themselves are usually too busy running the track to race....ironic, isn't it). The longest lasting track in my area is Barnstormers. It is literally a track on some farm land and has been around for over 30 years. I don't know all of the details, but likely privately owned. That's how I would do it if I had my own track. Buy my own property and do it my way so that nobody can push me around. If you want to race on it, great. If not, then I get the track to myself to play with. Would it be worth the investment? Depends on how rich I am.

I prompted Chat GTP to your thoughtful post. Stickyboy's post above highlights several challenges and trade-offs in creating a viable RC track. The answer is multifaceted (but so is the problem).
To address these concerns and make the track sustainable, here are some recommendations according to AI:

1. Create a Hybrid Track Model
Beginner-Friendly Days/Events: Dedicate specific days or events to beginner and casual racers. This creates a welcoming environment and encourages a steady influx of new participants. Provide coaching sessions, rental equipment, or even beginner-only races to reduce intimidation.
High-Competition Days: Host competitive events for seasoned racers on separate days. Offering prize pools, sponsorships, or IFMAR-qualifying opportunities can attract serious racers without alienating beginners.
Mixed Formats: Occasionally blend beginner and experienced racers in friendly exhibition races to foster community interaction.
(I think having hybrid "times" for practicing and racing within one day is more ideal)...
2. Diversify Revenue Streams
Retail Shop: Sell RC kits, replacement parts, and upgrades. Partner with brands like Traxxas for beginner-friendly products and higher-end brands for serious racers.
Repair and Maintenance Services: Offer repair workshops or maintenance services for RC cars, which can draw customers regularly.
Membership Programs: Create tiered memberships for racers, offering perks like discounts, practice hours, or reserved parking.
Event Hosting: Organize local tournaments, birthday parties, or corporate team-building events. These can introduce new people to the hobby and create a broader customer base.
Snack and Beverage Sales: A small café or vending machines on-site can add supplementary income.
(Yes, i agree. Moms and dads that bring their kids would benefit from a coffee shop/cafe on premise too)...
3. Reduce real Estate Costs
Rural Locations: Follow the Barnstormers model by situating the track in a rural area with lower property costs. Focus on creating a destination experience rather than relying solely on local foot traffic.
Multi-Use Facilities: Share the property with complementary businesses or activities, such as go-karting, drone racing, or paintball, to spread overhead costs.
Temporary Tracks: Use portable track designs for pop-up events at fairs, parks, or community centers, reducing long-term property commitments.
4. Foster Community Engagement
Build a Loyal Customer Base: Focus on creating a welcoming, fun community. Social media groups, forums, and in-person events can keep people engaged even when they’re not racing.
Volunteer Programs: Allow regular racers to volunteer for track maintenance or event organizing in exchange for free practice time or other benefits. This reduces the owner's burden and builds loyalty.
Local Sponsorships: Partner with local businesses to sponsor the track or events. This can provide funding and increase visibility in the community.
(This is a part-time job for sure)...
5. Address Track Conditions and Racer Attitudes
Continuous Feedback Loop: Regularly survey racers for feedback on track conditions and implement reasonable suggestions. Transparency about the challenges of maintaining the track can also build understanding.
Flexible Layouts: Design tracks with modular or changeable features so that conditions and challenges can evolve, keeping things fresh for all skill levels.
Community Work Days: Organize days where racers help with track upkeep, fostering ownership and camaraderie.
6. Leverage Technology
Virtual Racing Integration: Offer simulator setups that mimic RC racing, providing a low-cost entry point for newcomers and additional income during bad weather.
Online Presence: Maintain an active online community with live streams of races, tutorials, and regular updates to draw in remote interest and sponsorship opportunities.
(This is a freaking cool idea. The metaverse, and sticking camera's on RC cars might be another option for off-premise virtual racing. What if this happens in real time? Racing from home???)...one day!
7. Passion-Driven Ownership
As noted, privately owning the land and running the track for personal enjoyment while accepting it may not always be profitable could be the best route for those passionate about the hobby. However, ensuring the above strategies are in place can minimize losses and maximize enjoyment for both owners and racers.
Would this mix of approaches align with your vision, or are there specific constraints you're trying to overcome?
(It is a lot of work, as noted by the original post, but the solutions outlined by AI provide a guide)...

[RCveteran]

/or a loyal customer base who aren't trying to make it to IFMAR.

Amazes me how many guys act like IFMAR is next. Fact is unless you are a relatively small handful of paid drivers worldwide, you probably suck relatively and no one cares about your results. I recall before my local carpet track closed we had a relatively large race where two Factory Team AE drivers came out. I think they also were sponsored by Rawspeed. Can't recall their names but got sense they were the AE B team so to speak but still cool to have them come cross country.

After a lot of years in the hobby was I surprised as this was my first encounter with drivers of this level. They smoked our fast guys who in general were the type of guys laps ahead of the rest of us. Was such an eye opener and actually made me realize how slow we all were and to just have fun while they did their thing.