“ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
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This is a catch-all forum for any make and model produced from the year 2000 to present day.
This is a catch-all forum for any make and model produced from the year 2000 to present day.
- XLR8
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“ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
I received this kit from an ebay member in Cincinnati (it arrived in only 3 days!) and I couldn’t wait to open all the boxes to see what I have.
First impressions:
After a quick check of the contents, the kit appears to be complete, everything is well packed and very clean and, as near as I can tell, the frame, trans and axles have been assembled correctly. All cast aluminum parts have a really nice satin bead-blasted bare aluminum finish. The fasteners are boxed separately and screw bags are clearly labeled. The included Hilux body is nearly identical to the one from RC4WD except I believe it’s a higher quality molding than the TF2 version (less flash, smaller parting lines, overall less sag, twist, distortion, etc. – maybe my TF2 body is just an abnormally poor example, I dunno). The manual is nicely illustrated and includes full size fastener drawings along the left margin adjacent to each step for easy reference. Overall, for the price, I’m impressed with the quality of this kit.
Shocks:
The shocks are supplied pre-assembled and, unfortunately, with most of the oil on the outside – the bag is entirely coated with oil and the bottom cap for each shock had not been tightened and nearly fell off as I pulled them from the bag. Everyone seems to have issues with the shocks so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. The P407's shocks have shaft seals that are held in place with a threaded cap while the Bruiser's shocks had seals that were more or less permanently fixed to the shock body with a roll-burnish. So at least it appears that the P407's shocks can be serviced. Both the P407 and Bruiser shocks have spring-loaded floating pistons to prevent aeration of the shock oil -- assuming they don't leak, that is. Transmission:
While removing the rear cover from the trans to confirm which parts will be needed to convert it to full-time 4wd, I managed to strip the head of one of the 3mm button head cover screws and needed to Dremel a screwdriver slot to extract the screw. The screw wasn’t that tight and I found no evidence of thread lock so I can only assume that the failure is related to the screw material. Inside, the unit seemed to be clean and well lubricated – no other issues here. Curiously, some of the bearings have metal shields while others have rubber seals. Although it’s not how HG assembled it, I will place the rubber sealed bearings at the output shaft locations – hopefully that will help to prevent dirt entering the case.
Tamiya makes a neat little multi-plate slipper clutch assembly to fit the re-re Bruiser. Since it's for their re-release I'd wondered if it would also fit the P407. Well, I've done some research and Tamiya uses a convoluted drive shape throughout their trans (including the sliders) while HG uses hex drive. As such I don't think the Tamiya clutch will fit the HG tranny without changing the entire main shaft gear set and I think the Tamiya gears are plastic.
I squirreled away a few of those rubber anti-vibration gromets that Futaba used to supply with their servos (maybe they still do?) and they just happen to fit the P407’s trans mounting tabs perfectly. This might make the truck run a little quieter and facilitate additional chassis flex as well. We’ll see. Axles:
Both axles are supplied pre-assembled and they look great. I haven’t opened the axles but, since there’s resistance while turning the shafts and working the diffs, they feel like they’ve been greased. I’ve heard of at least one instance where the axle’s screws had been thread-locked with the red permanent stuff so I’ll be prepared to use the soldering gun technique to free them if necessary. The front axle’s steering parts are really nice and tight – I’ve heard some complaints related to loose king pins and loose wheel shaft/hub/bearing fit but it appears that I got lucky this time. If anything, the right side seems a little extra tight but I’m hoping it’ll wear-in over time. There are plugged holes provided in the top of both axle cases to allow for pinning the diffs (the pins are provided in the accessory bag). I will lock the rear axle and leave the front axle open to help the truck to steer more easily. updates to follow after the truck has been assembled…
First impressions:
After a quick check of the contents, the kit appears to be complete, everything is well packed and very clean and, as near as I can tell, the frame, trans and axles have been assembled correctly. All cast aluminum parts have a really nice satin bead-blasted bare aluminum finish. The fasteners are boxed separately and screw bags are clearly labeled. The included Hilux body is nearly identical to the one from RC4WD except I believe it’s a higher quality molding than the TF2 version (less flash, smaller parting lines, overall less sag, twist, distortion, etc. – maybe my TF2 body is just an abnormally poor example, I dunno). The manual is nicely illustrated and includes full size fastener drawings along the left margin adjacent to each step for easy reference. Overall, for the price, I’m impressed with the quality of this kit.
Shocks:
The shocks are supplied pre-assembled and, unfortunately, with most of the oil on the outside – the bag is entirely coated with oil and the bottom cap for each shock had not been tightened and nearly fell off as I pulled them from the bag. Everyone seems to have issues with the shocks so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. The P407's shocks have shaft seals that are held in place with a threaded cap while the Bruiser's shocks had seals that were more or less permanently fixed to the shock body with a roll-burnish. So at least it appears that the P407's shocks can be serviced. Both the P407 and Bruiser shocks have spring-loaded floating pistons to prevent aeration of the shock oil -- assuming they don't leak, that is. Transmission:
While removing the rear cover from the trans to confirm which parts will be needed to convert it to full-time 4wd, I managed to strip the head of one of the 3mm button head cover screws and needed to Dremel a screwdriver slot to extract the screw. The screw wasn’t that tight and I found no evidence of thread lock so I can only assume that the failure is related to the screw material. Inside, the unit seemed to be clean and well lubricated – no other issues here. Curiously, some of the bearings have metal shields while others have rubber seals. Although it’s not how HG assembled it, I will place the rubber sealed bearings at the output shaft locations – hopefully that will help to prevent dirt entering the case.
Tamiya makes a neat little multi-plate slipper clutch assembly to fit the re-re Bruiser. Since it's for their re-release I'd wondered if it would also fit the P407. Well, I've done some research and Tamiya uses a convoluted drive shape throughout their trans (including the sliders) while HG uses hex drive. As such I don't think the Tamiya clutch will fit the HG tranny without changing the entire main shaft gear set and I think the Tamiya gears are plastic.
I squirreled away a few of those rubber anti-vibration gromets that Futaba used to supply with their servos (maybe they still do?) and they just happen to fit the P407’s trans mounting tabs perfectly. This might make the truck run a little quieter and facilitate additional chassis flex as well. We’ll see. Axles:
Both axles are supplied pre-assembled and they look great. I haven’t opened the axles but, since there’s resistance while turning the shafts and working the diffs, they feel like they’ve been greased. I’ve heard of at least one instance where the axle’s screws had been thread-locked with the red permanent stuff so I’ll be prepared to use the soldering gun technique to free them if necessary. The front axle’s steering parts are really nice and tight – I’ve heard some complaints related to loose king pins and loose wheel shaft/hub/bearing fit but it appears that I got lucky this time. If anything, the right side seems a little extra tight but I’m hoping it’ll wear-in over time. There are plugged holes provided in the top of both axle cases to allow for pinning the diffs (the pins are provided in the accessory bag). I will lock the rear axle and leave the front axle open to help the truck to steer more easily. updates to follow after the truck has been assembled…
Doug
- XLR8
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
Well, it looks like Denny Dempsey over at Youtube has beat me to the punch line. If you're interested in learning how to convert your P407 or re-re Bruiser to full time 4wd, here ya go.
I'm still waiting for my gear to arrive.
I'm still waiting for my gear to arrive.
Doug
- XLR8
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
That raises an interesting question. With both diffs locked and with better tires, I think the P407 would be the clear winner. The Blazer sits too low and has less total rubber on the ground.
Anyway, I look forward to taking them out somewhere challenging for comparison -- after replacing those hockey puck tires that is.
Anyway, I look forward to taking them out somewhere challenging for comparison -- after replacing those hockey puck tires that is.
Doug
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
The TF2 generally has tyres that sit within the body in a very scale way compared to the p407 , that is going to disadvantage the TF2 surely ?
If a jobs not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well.
A problem shared is a problem halved but an advantage shared is no advantage at all.
A problem shared is a problem halved but an advantage shared is no advantage at all.
- XLR8
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
here ya go. question answered in only one minute and eight seconds. Although, it's closer than I expected and the P407's added width does hurt in certain situations.
Doug
- Basher67
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
Hmm. This video seems to point to the HG as the winner, which would seem to be because of the larger tires which would result in more traction and ground clearance. Other factors such as tire compound and foam density could sway it either way I guess. One of the owners of my lhs is a diehard custom crawler builder and the first thing he had to say after inspecting my HG, was that the spring u-bolts pointing down could be an issue in rocks because the nuts could get hung up.
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
You'd need to test with the same tyres to be 100% fair but it bodes well for a little light crawling .
If a jobs not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well.
A problem shared is a problem halved but an advantage shared is no advantage at all.
A problem shared is a problem halved but an advantage shared is no advantage at all.
- XLR8
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- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:46 am
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
Body is assembled and lighted. Actually, I've simply fitted the light system removed from my TF2 Hilux since I won't be running that body again. There's no light controller, everything stays lit.
Doug
- XLR8
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
thanks Basher. Should have this one wrapped up soon.
Doug
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
Did you paint the body or is that the stock color ? I like the orange clear on the marker lights on the sides .
If a jobs not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well.
A problem shared is a problem halved but an advantage shared is no advantage at all.
A problem shared is a problem halved but an advantage shared is no advantage at all.
- XLR8
- Approved Member
- Posts: 3296
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:46 am
- Location: north/central Alabama
- Has thanked: 1640 times
- Been thanked: 1156 times
Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
I can't decide on a color so it will stay black for now. I kinda like the whole black and chrome look. I've used Tamiya's transparent red and amber paint on the lenses - 3 coats each one spaced an hour apart.
Doug
- XLR8
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Re: “ToyAto Crawler” HG-P407 (the black kit)
Well it finally stopped raining here today so I’ve had an opportunity to run the truck around in the back yard and dial-in the suspension. Later, the sun came out so I grabbed the camera and took these shots.
I really don’t like those big Bruiser bumpers or the mini topper but I’ll run the topper for now (why on earth did HG chrome it anyway, seems a little crazy to me) -- a little careful masking and some semi-gloss paint and I’m okay with it for now. Eventually I’ll remove the topper and install a cab back like others have done and maybe a lighted roll bar like the Mountaineer. I did the butter-tub thing as sight guards for fender wells. Without some kind of guard, I’m able to see right through the front fenders to the opposite side of the truck. I’ve omitted those metal rear suspension links (aka traction bars) and kept removing springs until the suspension was soft enough so that it would actually work somewhat as intended. I’m down to just one leaf on each corner, no coil springs and no oil in the shocks. It’s fairly smooth now but nowhere close to the SCX10 – that thing absolutely floats over rough terrain. Anyway, having ran a couple packs now, I really like the truck. It’s amazingly quiet and, on a 5200mah 2-cell lipo, it seems to run forever and the motor is barely even warm. It was a little fiddly adjusting the shift servo so that it would land in 2nd gear without overshooting it but it seems to work well now. I’ve perfected a technique for shifting gears: start down a hill then back off the throttle slightly to unload the drivetrain then slip it into the desired gear. Shifting gears at a dead stop seems a little harsh to me; I suspect that if the tranny’s drive hexes aren’t aligned it won’t allow the shift linkage to move so the servo saver and linkage becomes bound-up and this causes a *snap* and the truck to jump when throttle is applied. I guess the tranny really needs proper synchronizers and a clutch. haha. I’m starting to think those sintered metal gears might be the weak link in the system as they might be too brittle. I wonder if Tamiya actually got it right by using plastic gears in their transmissions. Anyway, I’m very pleased with the truck – it’s a lot of fun to drive. Can’t wait to replace those dreadful stock “tires” and get it out on the trails.
I really don’t like those big Bruiser bumpers or the mini topper but I’ll run the topper for now (why on earth did HG chrome it anyway, seems a little crazy to me) -- a little careful masking and some semi-gloss paint and I’m okay with it for now. Eventually I’ll remove the topper and install a cab back like others have done and maybe a lighted roll bar like the Mountaineer. I did the butter-tub thing as sight guards for fender wells. Without some kind of guard, I’m able to see right through the front fenders to the opposite side of the truck. I’ve omitted those metal rear suspension links (aka traction bars) and kept removing springs until the suspension was soft enough so that it would actually work somewhat as intended. I’m down to just one leaf on each corner, no coil springs and no oil in the shocks. It’s fairly smooth now but nowhere close to the SCX10 – that thing absolutely floats over rough terrain. Anyway, having ran a couple packs now, I really like the truck. It’s amazingly quiet and, on a 5200mah 2-cell lipo, it seems to run forever and the motor is barely even warm. It was a little fiddly adjusting the shift servo so that it would land in 2nd gear without overshooting it but it seems to work well now. I’ve perfected a technique for shifting gears: start down a hill then back off the throttle slightly to unload the drivetrain then slip it into the desired gear. Shifting gears at a dead stop seems a little harsh to me; I suspect that if the tranny’s drive hexes aren’t aligned it won’t allow the shift linkage to move so the servo saver and linkage becomes bound-up and this causes a *snap* and the truck to jump when throttle is applied. I guess the tranny really needs proper synchronizers and a clutch. haha. I’m starting to think those sintered metal gears might be the weak link in the system as they might be too brittle. I wonder if Tamiya actually got it right by using plastic gears in their transmissions. Anyway, I’m very pleased with the truck – it’s a lot of fun to drive. Can’t wait to replace those dreadful stock “tires” and get it out on the trails.
Doug
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