FasKolor Disaster!!!!

[PBR Allstar]

Okay,,, so last night I started painting the protech body I got for my freebie. Like I said, I've been out of RC for quite a while, and I decided to try the new (new to me anyway) parma faskolor. I shot a little bit of black first and that laid down fine. then I moved on to some green, which had a little bit of intricate masking work. I let it set up for a while, kicked it with a hair dryer and then went to remove the mask, when I pulled the mask it just started peeling the edges of the green of with it WTF?!? I was super bent,,, I think I did the right thing though, ended up just setting it down and walking away rather than trying to fix it on the spot.
Now, I was trying to treat it like an enamel, pulling the tape befor the paint cures so the edge doesn't chip. Do I need to let faskolor cure before I pull the tape? the parma website doesnt' give much info on this topic, they make it sound like you can move on to the next color as soon as it sets? The body was clean and all the basics, so does anyone have any pointers for me???

thanks,
ford.

[PBR Allstar]

okay,,, total shame,, but I think this body is lost. for whatever reason the green peels with the tape,, I'm going to experiment and practice with the rest of it...... I'm so pissed at the moment....

[rojna]

Fasmask is water based which means if it does not come out how you like it, you can wash the paint of with water and start over I peel the masking off about 10 minutes after painting ... never had problems with fasmask peeling. Maybe try to thin out the paint a little with water or clear windex.

[PBR Allstar]

Greg,
thanks for the tips,, I just went and picked up some parma liquid mask, which I think I'm officially going to blame the tape I was using I was using pretty standard masking tape, which I believe the water based paint was just slightly absorbing into the exposed edge and allowing the paint to "grab" just slightly. I tried using some of the pactra fine line tape on a couple pieces of scrap, and that seemed to work okay.
As for the body, I managed to get all the paint off with water and some brake fluid, but I did mark the body a bit when I cut the tape on it previously. Anyway, I'm going to re mask the body and try again,, I'm sure you'll be able to see the blade marks from round 1, but hopefully It will still look good for a runner.

ford.

[superfly]

you're saying that the paint isnt bonding to the body and the tape is removing it? Sounds like the paint is bad...I bought a bunch of old cans of pactra from a hobby store and it was a disaster too...there is no date on the cans that i can see and i think they were sitting on the shelf for years...no good!!!! Tried newer cans and then no probs...

[shodog]

One thing you also need to do is to make sure the body is free of oils by throughly washing it with soap before painting. Sounds to me there was something prohibiting the paint from etching into the plastic.

[Whiskers]

Fastcolor = Water based paint, the way of the future. but unless you scratch the surface to give it tooth to bite into, then it's just going to lay on top, then when you flex it, it's going to break and peel off.

Sorry for my opinion, but that's all I see anymore. They make a cheap product, so you will spend more fixing it. But that is the way! How are they going to stay in business if they make a product that lasts beyond a week or two?

[Eau Rouge]

One thing you also need to do is to make sure the body is free of oils by throughly washing it with soap before painting. Sounds to me there was something prohibiting the paint from etching into the plastic.

Bingo. I've been painting R/C cars for 25 years, and have used ALL brands of paints for painting these things. The Parma Faskolor paints are almost all I use anymore (outside of a few random SpazStix lacquer candies). In fact, you can find the exact paints cheaper at an art store under the Creatix label. Same product, same colors—about a buck less a bottle.

You do NOT have to scuff the surface of a Lexan body to make the paint stick. In the over 2000 bodies I have painted, I have never EVER needed or even had to attempt to make the paint stick better, and the only paint I have ever had come off of a body was Pactra acrylic fluorescent orange about 5 years ago.


To prep any body for paint, you MUST wash it thoroughly with dish soap and water, and completely rinse and dry the body. Wash your hands before you mask, too. There are mold release oils on the body from the factory, and silicones and oils in your hands that will make ANY paint not stick to a smooth surface. Keep the paint surface CLEAN! I'd put money on the fact that the body wasn't clean when you masked and painted.



For forced drying, I use a heat gun on the surface of the paint to speed drying between coats, so that should have nothing to do with the paint peeling up. I doubt it's the paint, itself, too. You should also thin these paints before spraying the, too. I prefer to use a clear window cleaner likE Armor All Automotive Window Cleaner instead of water. You will get a much smoother spray, and it cleans the airbrush better. Some guys will use alcohol, too, but I don't like how fast it tends to dry if I am shooting with high PSI pressures.




As previously mentioned, I would also try to immediately wash the existing paint off to start over before too much longer. It WILL come off if you want it to, but don't let it cure too much longer. Use a sponge and give it a good scrub. If water and soap doesn't work, you can also use denatured alcohol to remove the paint safely. It might be a mess, but the body isn't a write-off.



Hope this helps... don't give up, all is not lost.

[mikedealer]

Sounds like you didnt thin the paint enough..

Faskolor paints are great cause they are water based and you can paint inside, but they are TOUGH as hell to work with and get the results you want sometimes..

i got back into the RC hobby a few months ago and i am a very good airbrusher, or used to be back in the day... Learning the "tips and tricks" of using faskolor paints was a huge undertaking...

Obviously you can pour them in your airbrush and begin painting, but when you want controlled detail work, you need to thin the paints. There have been tons of discussions on other boards and such, the quick solution is this, 60% paint, 40% thinning solution.

The Thinning Solution i use usually is 50% Windex (the blue one) and 50% Isopropyl Alcohol (70% stuff). I know it sounds crazy but it does work.... And Different Paints use different amounts of thinning. Meaning like just the base colors usually takes 65/35 mix. Pearls Use 60/40 usually, and the fasttint i usually go 75/25 mix (yes i mix tint lol). And some paints i just use windex with no alcohol depending on what im doing.

The Problem i had before thinning was when i peeled off a mask, i would take off a whole layer of paint cause it wasnt bonding to the lexan properly.

What i recommened besides all the "normal" cleaning and body prep tips is this, goto the supermarket and buy the WHITE face scotch bright pads (usually have a pink sponge), and lightly scuff the inside body, this will help GREATLY with paint adhesion. The white face sponge is for delicate dish work and works well with this application..

To mix paint/thinner i recommend a cheap syringe that has CC marks on it and measure "paint heavy" first and add thinner, start at 75% paint and keep mixing and adding thinner till you get the right mix. I know windex sounds crazy but if you email Parma for Tech support for the paint, they will probably turn you over to Mike Czech, who's website is http://czech-it-out-graphics.com/ and he from there will turn you over to the forum http://www.cfxpaintworks.com/ for more paint tips. While he is pretty help and often visits that forum, faskolor is a HARD paint to get used to.

Other problems i had was Compressor Pressure. some people use 25 Psi, some use 75 PSI, and different paints sometimes require different pressures to apply atomized like they should..

For Practice, i recommend taking a 2liter soda bottle, cutting the top and bottom off, and then cut it in half vertically, this will give you 2 curved peice of clear plastic that when sanded, can be painted pretty good for practice.

Good luck

[mikedealer]

just to summarize too, since ive started thinning the paint and scuffing it, i never had it peel since or come apart when the body flexes during a crash. Scuffing may not be needed as said above, but when working with larger scale like 8th scale gas trucks and buggies and such, i noticed it does help, i could be wrong on that but i had 2 bodies painted using the same paints basically, 1 was scuffed and 1 wasnt basically, and the scuffed one stood the test of time pretty well, and i had some nasty crashes with it.

[wyldbill]

the cfx paintworks site is awesome it has a lot of cool pictures and the forum section is very informative.

[PBR Allstar]

thanks for all the help guys,, I did salvage the body and ended up getting decent results (it's a five footer) there are some pics in the readers ride section. I tried using the parma liquid mask and that helped with my problem of the edge lifting as the paint didn't seem to want to stick to it as bad, but I think I want to try some of the dively mask. I also tried some different drying times before I peeled the mask and I coudln't really tell if that changed my results much, anyone have any opinions on this? I was kicking the paint just a little with a heat gun. Oh and for the record I was not thinning the paint, I think I will try that next though.


thanks,
ford.

[Eau Rouge]

I tried using the parma liquid mask and that helped with my problem of the edge lifting as the paint didn't seem to want to stick to it as bad, but I think I want to try some of the dively mask.

For the record, I believe that the Parma LM is the same as the Bob Dively LM.

And yes, you HAVE to thin this paint to get it to spray properly. If you don't listen to anything else said here, follow the thinning suggestions found here.




doug

[mikedealer]

yes thinning is needed, and the reason i say that is because then it will lift properly with tape no problem.. If you dont thin it, it will spray on a little too "latexy" if that makes sense, when you lift a mask it will tend to stick.

After thinning, it will be easier to lift.. Just lift slow and watch for lifts, since thinning, i never had a problem with lifting masks since then.

Thinning with the faskolors is all about feel of the paint, get some scrap paper and spray until it feels right, you should get a perfectly atomized spray, if you are getting splatters of ANY type, it is too thick.

Also make sure to seal the underbody with the sealer.

[PBR Allstar]

Yeah, I still haven't had a chance to try thinning the paint yet, maybe I'll get some practice in this weekend. I know what you mean by "latexy", that describes it pretty well. As far as sealing goes, I found a good thread on rctech.net, and several people there were sealing the paint with pactra spray, so that's what I did and it worked very well.

ford.