converting classic rear to world's rear, questions?

[pcrussell50]

so i'm not striving for authenticity... IOW i'm not trying to build a convincing fake. I'm just trying to in a sense, update my original gold pan classic to the latest/best handling parts for it and leave it at that. i've already got a stealth for it and drilled the pan using a B-stamp as a drill guide.

my question is, what rear-end worlds parts have a different/improved geometry than the classic parts? IOW, which of my classic parts do i have to replace with something else to get the same geometry as the world's?

So far, all i know for sure is,

1) the world's car had cvd shafts and my classic had dogbones only, so i need a cvd axle set, right? do i need special worlds uprights or are they the same as the classic uprights except for being black?

2) the upper control arm/turnbuckle is longer because it attaches under the wing tube, i think i've got that covered with a new rear bulkhead and longer turnbuckles, right?

3) what else is different? lower control arms (besides being black)? lower control arm mounts? the control arm hinge pins (inner and outer)?

4) iow, what SPECIFICALLY (including part numbers), do i have to replace off my classic with something different from the world's, to get the same rear end geometry as the world's?

-peter

[jwscab]

upper camber link
rear arm mounts
cvd's
rear hubs

things that you are looking to update would be these. the original worlds manual would have all the part numbers necessary to let you know what you need, should be able to download direct from associated.

upper camber link and toe-in (rear arm mounts/hubs) will have the most drastic change. cvds do change driving dynamics but probably not enough to notice.

[pcrussell50]

perfect, thanks. just what i needed to know.

just to clarify, the "upper camber link" is the threaded rod with the ball cups that goes from the bulkhead to the hub/upright?

-peter

[DaveM]

Hi Peter,

Parts to convert a Classic to Worlds ( running Classic wheels )

6206 front a-arms wide track.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX2511&P=7

6259 Worlds turnbuckles and ball cups.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX2540&P=ML

7364 Worlds 0 Degree rear hubs.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEDZF&P=7

If you are going to run your original 1/4 axles and dog bones, you will need 4 of

3/8 x 1/4 x 1/8 bearings.

http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/6/14-x-38-x-18-Metal-R168ZZ-bearings.html

That's it.

Cheers, Dave.

[pcrussell50]

Gidday dave. I actually plan to run the CVD and worlds hubs. But aren't there any bearings I need for those too?

I already have the things I need for the front wide conversion. Should be doing that beginning tomorrow morning. I'll take pics and add it to my thread chronicling the conversion.

Been wrenching today on my full size race car, a "US-spec v8 supercars" car, if you will. Only a little less super. It's giving me headaches with a misfire under load.

-Peter

[DaveM]

Hi Peter,

Yep different bearings (4 of )

3/8 x 3/16 x 1/8

These are metal shielded,

http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/10/316-x-38-x-18-Metal-R166ZZ-bearings.html

These are rubber sealed,

http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/9/316-x-38-x-18-Rubber-R166-2RS-bearings.html

Rubber sealed bearings are better in wheels and hubs, less likely for dirt to get into the bearings.

Cheers, Dave.

[DaveM]

Hi Peter,

With a miss fire under load,

Make sure no plug leads are touching any metal.

Make sure plug leads are no closer than 1/2 inch.

You will need plastic wire separators.

Is it a Chevy motor?

Firing order, 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 ?

Plug 7 fires straight after 5, this is where you would normally get cross fire on a high compression

Chev engine.

With a high comp engine with a strong ignition system, the spark is trying to find the easiest way

to earth, which may mean jumping to another lead or the metal of the engine.

Smokey Yunick wrote a very good book where he talks about ignitions and cross fire.

Cheers, Dave.

[pcrussell50]

Its a 5.0l/302.Ford. So 13726548. I had thought of checking for crossfire, but hadn't done it yet. As a preliminary, I start it at night in pitch black and look for stray sparks. Its not a proper load test, but sometimes it gives itself away anyway. I have been playing with rerouted spark plug wires brought on by a different set of headers, so maybe that will turn out to be it?

Thanks again the guidance on this and more on topic, the conversion of my classic to worlds geometry.

Ta,
Peter

[DaveM]

Hi Peter,

So you have 5 firing after 6.

An area to look for cross fire.

I was trying to find you a good pic of spark plug lead routing but,

Quote,

CAUTION: To prevent cross fire, be sure that wires DO NOT run parallel, but run across each other somewhere between the plug and the distributor.

Cheers, Dave.

[pcrussell50]

Thanks mate. That will be the first thing I check when I get back to my road-race car later in the week. Hopefully with a fully installed WC front suspension on my nearly 30yo RC10 classic.

back on topic again ...
I"m blown away by how inexpensive the Avid prices on bearing is. much much much cheaper than TA. WOW. Do they carry the ones i need to build up a USA stealth out of the two stealth cases i ordered off amain?

i already have a working stealth i'm going to use for this conversion. and an awesome t2/b2.t3/b3 stealth i can't use and will have to sell. and those two USA spec stealth cases. I was pricing out bearings for the stealth cases from TA's site and nearly gagged. hoping avid can beat those prices by a significant margin.

-peter

[DaveM]

Hi Peter,

I buy all my bearings from Avid.

Don't be too quick to get rid of the T3 gearbox, you may be able to use all the bearings and the idler

and top shaft and slipper and spur gear if it came with those?

The new worlds cases use the T/B3 idler gear and shaft.

The only difference is the large diff gear and drive rings and diff out drives and of coarse the cases.

Cheers, Dave.

[pcrussell50]

sounds like i have a lot to learn about how to pick the right internals for my two USA-stealth cases (6565 i think). i'll probably have to start a thread on it, but in the mean time, do you suppose the 1994 worlds manual has the right PN's for internals for my USA-spec cases? i'm ASSuming the 6565 USA cases are remakes of the original stealth cases, whereas the on that comes on the rere worlds is the one that is new and has incompatible internals with the old stuff?

-peter

[GoMachV]

The idler is actually compatible if you use a second set of bearings, but it's wasteful and the gears are inferior to the 6570 that was made for the old case. Otherwise the parts are interchangeable

[DaveM]

Hi Peter,

Oops, looks like Gomachv beat me.

Here is the download link for the new Worlds manual with the new stealth.

http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10WC/Worlds_Car/RC10WC-Manual-updated.pdf

The only difference between the two is the new cases and the B/T3/4/SC style idler.

The new Worlds also uses a B4 top shaft and V2 slipper.

If you got all the B/T3 top shaft and slipper you could just use those.

Cheers, Dave.

[pcrussell50]

so now i'm a little confused. are you saying i can or can NOT use rere worlds stealth (6564) internals in my non-rere worlds, 6565 USA stealth case?

and jason, i don't want to be wasteful.. i want to do these 6565 usa stealth cases right. thanks for pitching in. happy to take this to another thread before we get too far off topic of suspension.

-peter