Fake parts

[MelvinsArmy]

Okay, the can of worms has been opened, I'm going to throw the contents in the fan and see where it lands.

My take:
I don't see why there would even be a market for fake "reproduction" parts with collectors. What is the point? "Here's my full RPM Worlds with a MIP 4wd conversion RC10. Oh, the RPM shock tower was made by Joe, my buddy Bill made half the MIP parts and my other buddy Mike spun me some Technacraft wheels on his lathe."

I got into collecting vintage buggies for nostalgic reasons. I raced a Jrx2 back in the day. I raced mostly against RC10s. I love the old cars, and more importantly, I love that era. It was exciting and it was fun. 84 till about 94 was of the golden age of RC cars if you ask me. Today I like seeing all the different variations of all the cars. MIP, RPM, Hot Trick, Sassy, Composite Craft, etc, etc, etc.

Now, zoom to 2007. Prices for these racing buggies and variations are finally starting to go up. But not that much really, on average, the don't even cost more than they did when new, well unless you're talking about NIB complete kits.

So, we start making reproductions of old, rare parts. Fake parts. Sounds like a good idea to some (or maybe a majority and I'm just crazy). Fine. Someone makes fake part X, and says "hey, I'm selling reproductions of part X, come and get them for $x." $x happens to be 1/5 of what a real version of that part usually sells for. A bunch of people buy these fake parts for their collections. Now, 3 weeks later, a year later, 5 years down the road, someone needs money or decides to sell part X for whatever reason. So, he puts it up on ebay. Let's say he just forgot that it was a reproduction, or let's say that he just lists it with no mention of it being a reproduction. Now it's on the market and some poor sap is going to spend big bucks to get what he thinks is a rare part that he's been searching high and low for.

Are you starting to understand what I'm getting at? Do you care about this hobby, or it's future? Do you care about your own collection? Do you care about vintage radio control cars?

What if you were in the market for a Picasso? What if you spent $20,000,000.00 on one and found out a year later that it was painted in 1995 by an art student? You might get a little pissed off.

Why would you want a fake part on your car in the first place? If fake parts are okay with you, why do you collect vintage cars?

Discuss.

[scr8p]

well, if i don't feel like waiting 5 years to find a part for one of my builds, and someone is reproducing that part, i have no problem buying it.

you also have to figure in that not every member on this forum is a diehard collector. i might have a descent amount of stuff, but i don't consider myself one. they're just trying to piece together a copy of the car they had when they were young, or the car they always wanted. and not go into debt trying to accomplish that.

obviously, i have a different view on reproduction parts. that mainly stems from building old "real" cars. hell, i can't even get alot of parts for my 88 monte carlo from gm anymore. and that's newer than my 6010 shelf queen.

[badhoopty]

i really dont have a passionate opinion one way or the other.

i guess if somebody was making nip mip legends kits and selling them as vintage thats one thing. but machining a run of shock tower sets out of fiberglass doesnt concern me that much.

maybe i can say that 'cause i'm the dude who payed 80 bucks for a shocktower.

go figure one went the next week for a fourth of the price i payed...

i think its just right to change the design a little or maybe make it out of something else. since its rpm towers that sparked this, what about making them out of white delrin or something? either just delrin repros or machine them all beefy with thread bosses and some more dimension, just like rpm should have.

as a matter of fact, i'm all about white delrin rpm-style shocktowers...

[scr8p]

i think its just right to change the design a little or maybe make it out of something else.

doing that, you just be making an aftermarket part. so, the term "reproduction" would not even come into play.

just like with those rpm towers. why would you waste money on a copy that does not look the same as the original? why waste time making the parts if they don't look like the originals? if i'm gonna "shame" myself by putting a reproduction part on a vintage car, the least it can do is look correct.

[Eau Rouge]

just like with those rpm towers. why would you waste money on a copy that does not look the same as the original? why waste time making the parts if they don't look like the originals? if i'm gonna "shame" myself by putting a reproduction part on a vintage car, the least it can do is look correct.

And what if RPM could/would/might make those original parts again from the original molds in small runs for very special individuals?

How do you feel about OEM remakes, or bodies pulled from the original molds by current collectors? What about repro decals or custom made screw kits to finish off the perfect project?

I think it depends on the piece. A complete MIP Legend kinda devalues the original, but a set of Tecnacrafts might have a market, considering that everyone wants them and few can find or afford them.



How do you feel about Tamiya re-releasing cars like the Frog and Hornet? Did they kill the value of the originals?

[scr8p]

just like with those rpm towers. why would you waste money on a copy that does not look the same as the original? why waste time making the parts if they don't look like the originals? if i'm gonna "shame" myself by putting a reproduction part on a vintage car, the least it can do is look correct.

And what if RPM could/would/might make those original parts again from the original molds in small runs for very special individuals?

How do you feel about OEM remakes, or bodies pulled from the original molds by current collectors? What about repro decals or custom made screw kits to finish off the perfect project?

I think it depends on the piece. A complete MIP Legend kinda devalues the original, but a set of Tecnacrafts might have a market, considering that everyone wants them and few can find or afford them.



How do you feel about Tamiya re-releasing cars like the Frog and Hornet? Did they kill the value of the originals?

are you adding to what i said, or asking me about how i feel about your questions?

[MelvinsArmy]

I own 4 RC10's a Jrx2 and the Fox I bought when I was 12. I hardly have a huge collection, nor consider myself a die hard collector. I don't really want any other vintage cars, I'm happy with my collection as it sits.

I'm not sure what you're building that takes 5 years to complete. I've been watching RC10 stuff on ebay for 6 or 7 years and have seen everything that I know exists for the RC10 and every version of the car, AE and aftermarket, up for sale multiple times.

The car I always wanted was an RC10. Made by Associated Electronics. Not by someone in his basement work shop. Maybe you wanted a different car when you were younger.

I have no problem with RPM, Tamiya, or any other manufacturer under the sun re-making discontinued parts. RPM makes RPM parts. Joe Blow does not make RPM parts.

Screws and hardware are a different story. Associated and Losi never made screws, they bought screws and included them in their kits. Even bodies I don't really care about as much, and I'm not really sure why to be honest. Decals I have no problem with at all.

Reproducing Tecnacrafts was brought up a while ago. Again, I have no idea why the hell anyone would want a set of fake Tecnacrafts. But, then again I don't know why anyone would want to buy a $8 Rolex from a guy on the street either.

I always wanted a Countach, look at my new Lamborghini:

[scr8p]

I'm not sure what you're building that takes 5 years to complete. I've been watching RC10 stuff on ebay for 6 or 7 years and have seen everything that I know exists for the RC10 and every version of the car, AE and aftermarket, up for sale multiple times.

ok, so maybe i'm being a little sarcastic with the 5 year part. but i'd still have absolutely no problem putting exact reproduction parts on any of my cars. ever. and if i had the equipment, i'd be making stuff myself. and selling it, if someone wanted it.

[MelvinsArmy]

I guess you and I have very different views about vintage stuff then.

I'm glad this forum was made. But, I'm also glad I had pretty much everything I ever wanted before it was created. I'm weary of the direction this hobby is going in. I can't wrap my mind around why someone would want an exact copy of a part that was originally made by brand x. It just doesn't compute in my head. I mean, if you're going to go through the trouble make your own parts, why not make them your own parts. Isn't the point of having an RPM car, actually having an RPM car?

So when do the fake MIP 4wd conversions come out?

[scr8p]

well, my rpm car is all rpm. so, it really doesn't pertain to my car. but, if i didn't already have one of those towers, a repop would be just fine for me.

so, your telling me that if you bought lets say a 70 chevelle, and it needed to be restored, you wouldn't use any reproduction parts on it? you spend the rest of your life searching for nos parts? you'd rather spend $4,000 for a pair of nos quarter panels than spend $800 on reproductions, just because they were stamped in 1970? i doubt it.

this is a hobby. i have more important things to spend all of my money on (family, mortgage, bills, etc.). if i can get away with spending $10 on a carbon copy of a $100 part, i'm keeping $90 in my pocket. because the last time i checked, my last name wasn't trump.

[MelvinsArmy]

I'm a painter and my life revolves around art. My favorite living painter is Gerhard Richter. You know why I don't own a Gerhard Richter? Because I can't afford to spend a minimum of $250,000 for anything, let alone one one minor painting by my favorite living painter. I would sell nearly everything I own (including any organs that don't keep me alive) just to be able to own a small original piece by him. I have (this is going to sound like I'm bloating) the ability to re-create any of my favorite Richter paintings. But, why would I want to do that?

I do understand your point about restoring a 70 Chevelle. But, we're not talking about $4000 RC parts here. We're talking about a $60 part being an astronomical price. That part will likely find itself on a $300+ car. I wasn't even really thinking about price in the first place. My whole point was, if you have to own part x, why not be patient, sell some stuff to fund this holy grail part, then when it finally comes up, buy it. Then you'll own the part you desire so much.

[badhoopty]

i just want to make it official and say once again that i didnt pay 80 bucks because that shock tower is worth 80 bucks, i payed 80 bucks because it was my only option at the time to complete a build and i simply wanted it more than the other idiot bidding on them.

imho, nobody should ever have to pay 80 bucks for a piece of fiberglass with 3 holes in it.

anyway, i respect everybodies opinion on this and all that.

[MelvinsArmy]

i just want to make it official and say once again that i didnt pay 80 bucks because that shock tower is worth 80 bucks, i payed 80 bucks because it was my only option at the time to complete a build and i simply wanted it more than the other idiot bidding on them.

Exactly. Like you posted earlier, after you bought the piece, another came up and sold for considerably less. So, price isn't even really a justification for bootlegging.

[scr8p]

ya, i know were not talking about $4000 rc parts. i was just trying to make a point. but, staying on e shock tower theme , there's NO way i would have paid what hoopty did for that shock tower. that little piece of fiberglass that could easily be duplicated was not worth that much to me. if i was a diehard collector, and needed one that had an rpm tag on it, maybe. but like i said, a repop would suit me just fine.

i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[badhoopty]

i honestly cant figure out the vibe all the rest of you guys are on. i just like parts to build buggies with. if a shocktower isnt original and has an extra hole drilled in it i wouldnt cry a bit.

anyway, we may have to make a new rule for bst items if it becomes neccesary. and we should police ourselves in order to ensure that our little bunch of juicy apples doesnt get spoiled by a bad one.

and if i remember right, didnt you find one or two of those shocktowers at a lhs a couple weeks after i bought the exotic french version?