A-Main Bullet Fwd 4ws RC10 conversion Tribute build

[integra22t]

i would recomend a slow and strong servo as 4ws is strange to drive with a little movement means alot .. ive driven a prelude with 4ws and it felt like the rear end was breaking lose .. didnt care for that

[GoMachV]

What's shorting the front suspension travel...the shock bottoms out too quick, or is there binding in the arms/links?

Exactly, the shock extended is perfect but fully compressed the chassis is not bottomed out. I just need to bring the shock mount holes down a bit and relocate to allow the proper geometry. The original car used a Delta, not sure how that compares to the 1.02

The biggest issue right now is trying to figure out why the relationship of the bellcranks and motor plate are off. After trimming the motor plate to look like the book, the area that needs clearance should line up with the bellcrank where it runs to the back. If the bellcrank was moved forward, it throws off the relationship between the ball links for the tie rods and the trans mounting holes which is exactly as the book shows already. Same with the drag link, it's sitting as shown in the book. I'm confident the steering arms are where they should be- but something isn't right somewhere. I need to stare at it a bit and may end up making a new Kydex chassis from the newest drawing to see if it was addresses and I missed it.

[Phin]

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Exactly, the shock extended is perfect but fully compressed the chassis is not bottomed out. I just need to bring the shock mount holes down a bit and relocate to allow the proper geometry. The original car used a Delta, not sure how that compares to the 1.02

I don't have a Delta shock to compare directly but in the manual it looks like it may actually be longer than a 1.02" shock. For the Delta shock the nuts at the ends of the shock are just outside the edges of the chassis bumper, while on the 1.02" shock the nuts are just on the inside.

Just now noticed that in images 28A and 28B, on pg. 9 the shock is flipped around and lowered on the monoshock "towers" so there is at least two mounting positions for the shock. Hadn't noticed that before.

The biggest issue right now is trying to figure out why the relationship of the bellcranks and motor plate are off. After trimming the motor plate to look like the book, the area that needs clearance should line up with the bellcrank where it runs to the back. If the bellcrank was moved forward, it throws off the relationship between the ball links for the tie rods and the trans mounting holes which is exactly as the book shows already. Same with the drag link, it's sitting as shown in the book. I'm confident the steering arms are where they should be- but something isn't right somewhere. I need to stare at it a bit and may end up making a new Kydex chassis from the newest drawing to see if it was addresses and I missed it.

You're talking about the notch cut out at the bottom of the motor plate right? Can you post a pic?

The newest drawing didn't move the trans or bellcrank mounting holes so I don't think that will solve the problem unless you're just looking to change the angle of the rod ends.

I noticed you haven't thinned down the bellcranks from the center to the end...could that be what's causing the clearance problem?

[GoMachV]

I'll shoot some pics here in a bit. The thinning of the bellcranks won't effect the area I'm having trouble with but it still needs to happen. If I could move the pivot for the bellcrank forward 5mm or so (about what I'm off in the length if the front to rear steering rod) it would be lined up with the notch. Problem is, it can't be moved without it throwing off the other dimensions that are looking perfect.

The mono shock conversion by mip uses a 1.32 and works great. I may just start with those dimensions and make it fit with the narrower front. I can make the cranks look like A-Main at least. This is one of the few areas that I'm ok with not being totally original as we won't have a chance of finding Deltas at a realistic price

I should have a lot of time today to play with it, we will see.

[THUNDERSTRIKE1]

I'll shoot some pics here in a bit. The thinning of the bellcranks won't effect the area I'm having trouble with but it still needs to happen. If I could move the pivot for the bellcrank forward 5mm or so (about what I'm off in the length if the front to rear steering rod) it would be lined up with the notch. Problem is, it can't be moved without it throwing off the other dimensions that are looking perfect.

The mono shock conversion by mip uses a 1.02 and works great. I may just start with those dimensions and make it fit with the narrower front. I can make the cranks look like A-Main at least. This is one of the few areas that I'm ok with not being totally original as we won't have a chance of finding Deltas at a realistic price

I should have a lot of time today to play with it, we will see.

OOOOKKKKK ????

[GoMachV]

Ok Phin, here you can see the oversize cranks, length/pivot etc to the original looks ok and linkage looks to be correct per the pics as well. I cut the motor plate as shown, and you can see its a few mm off. The easy thing is to simply trim the motor plate but I feel like I'm missing something. The cranks could be moved forward but they would have to be shortened and I think that dimension is correct. If they were moved forward, the length of the rear steering rod would be correct to the manual as well tho.

[marlo]

Very cool build!!, looks like the shed light will be on all night

[Phin]

How much thicker is that motorplate vs. stock?

Looking at pics 35 and 36A in the manual everything looks to be in the right positions and I think there's interference because the motorplate is thicker than stock and more material has to be removed from the tip of the bellcrank.

I believe what passes thru the notch in the motorplate is the link connecting the two bellcranks, not the "arm" of the bellcrank that connects the front and rear steering.

What might need moving is the transmission case...but not by much...maybe a mm or two. The link connecting the bellcranks could also be moved back a touch too....and the link connection to the rear steering could be moved closer to the pivot point so that more material can be shaved off the tip.

[GoMachV]

If the link is what should be passing thru that makes more sense. I assumed it was to be the rear steer crank portion. Now that I look at the pics more I am sure you are correct. The plate is much thicker but tomorrow I should have my stuff back from anno- hoping for a decent gold color. I will play with it a bit more and see what I can do with that center link.

Thanks for the better set of eyes

[SFC K]

I agree with Phin on the center link. I does look like it is supposed to pass through that notch in the bottom of the motor plate. It's really hard to tell in the instructions. Your Carbon fiber swing arms look thicker that what is in the diagram. Not sure if they hit or not but it looks close.

I think for what you have for instructions by what you have created so far is outstanding! I'm sure you will get the kinks worked out.

[GoMachV]

Im dragging my feet on the steering arms as its going to be a pita to cut them and have them look good these are 1/8 and i believe the correct thickness should be around 3/32. I would like to see what they did on the bottom side, as a full length kyosho ball end is pretty long, and would likely drag the chassis. With these thick cranks it is almost touching. They must be grinding them or the standoffs higher than it looks.

The limitations on steering, surprising to me, is more about the clearance with the battery standoff on the left side, it actually has pretty decent steering movement. Of course the rear is very wobbly, with a flexy chassis its all over the place. I did flip the knuckles left to right and that killed most of the bump steer.

[REMJ666]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Straight A's for this one...I like the wheel and tire combo...Hopefully you run and post a short vid of you driving it...

[GoMachV]

Well, after staring at it for hours I have come to the conclusion that the notch is in the wrong place on the motor plate. If you use only their manual and estimate the distance between the trans holes and imagine one more spacing back, look at where the tie rod would be- and then look at a 6 gear, the math doesn't work. Same with the pivot, that can't line up either. I made the cranks "correct" and there is no problem now with clearance, with a stock motor plate it doesn't look like it would hit. Mine only hit due to the thickness. I need to find some new steering arm pivots, the nylon ones I found allow way too much "flipping around" although it may very well just be that way on the real one too.

Anyway, last pics for tonight:

[Phin]

It would stray from the original design, but you could glue a small piece of 1/8" thick fiberglass underneath the bellcranks, just at the pivot point, in order to make each crank thick enough to hold a couple of 1/8"x5/16" flanged bearings, top and bottom, instead of standoffs.

You'd need a small shim between the bearing and the chassis to keep the outside edge of the bearing off the chassis.

[GoMachV]

Oh yes- the next "version" will be killer. I can't wait to get started on that.

I got my anno back today so I'm working on some other fun projects, hopefully I will have time to address the mono shock later tonight. I'm not a fan of straying from their design but some things just can't be helped.