RC10 CE Set Up and Race Discussion

[JK Racing]

so I ran on a very abrasive high bite track this weekend. temperature was very high, everyone was going up 10 wgt in oil to compensate. i recently snagged a Team B3 with hard annod shocks, so I rebuilt those during the down time and went #2 50 front/#2 40 rear. felt way to stiff, but worked pretty well on the track (as an example of the temperatures, my chassis was 110 sitting in the shade with the fan blowing all morning in the canopy).

2nd and last day at the race, after watching everyone running big bore springs, i decided to pull the springs off the 22 and try them, what can it hurt? I pulled the shocks off both cars and started staring at putting the whole darn shock onto the gold pan...well, 1/2 hour later (rebuilt all 4 shocks and found the right spacers/limiters), the TLR big bores are on there. all 4 shocks, #55 piston, 35 wgt losi oil. red front springs, yellow rears (stock out of the kit for the 22). car handles fantastic, very plush and smooth, soaked up the long/big jumps with no problems. i could hug the pipe anywhere i wanted to on the track (not that I can drive that good mind you).

so it may be sacrilege, but i really love the losi shocks on the ae car.

[JK Racing]

based on this picture, what was wrong with the set up?

[Charlie don't surf]

Too soft of an insert and or too soft of a compound- oh, and too far off the pipe

[JK Racing]

I try not to hit the pipe while racing

AKA red CC inserts, Panther soft Rattlers.

50 wgt front oil, 40 wgt rear oil, #2 pistons, black front/green rear springs. "stock CE" book set up.

[Charlie don't surf]

50&40 is too heavy for those springs-once the weight transfers it can't rebound fast enough to settle the car so it stays "locked". If you want those weights, look at a blue front/silver rear and try a larger (#1) rear piston. Maybe a harder insert too-

[JK Racing]

track temps were very high, heck, it was 106 under the canopy , most the guys were in the 40-50 range with oils.



"cold" the car felt very slow to react, after a lap or 2 for warm up, it felt really good, like my normal 35/30.

I only hit that track a few times a year, next time I will try #1s with that weight (depending upon temperature) and heavier springs.

I ran my local outdoor track recently (with the TLR22 big bores) and the car really needs the rear droop, I could tell landing the bigger jumps.

Here is a different angle, same corner, me not diving as hard as I did...still laying off the pipe

[Charlie don't surf]

Unfortunately, I don't get to run SoCal outdoor scene but I'm pretty sure that silicone oil doesn't change viscosity with temperature- (might be wrong though). But, if the car takes two laps to settle in the only thing I can mention is that your shocks are emulsion shocks- so it might just be as your shocks emulsify in those two laps your adding enough air into the mix to thin it down to the point where your shock oil is effectively lighter or at least matched better to the spring-

I still think its just unbalanced between spring/oil

[Y'ernat Al]

Noticed one other thing on your car. Looks as though you have 1.5* arm mounts with 1.5* rear hubs. Look into running the 3* inner arm mounts, with the 0* outer hubs. ...

Jeff, You got any reasoning for this? I can see how this changes the angle of the rear arm just a bit, so the arms "receive bumps/landings" a bit different (equatable to antisquat in a way maybe?), but it's only 1.5 degrees, which intuitively ain't a whole lot. I can also see a slightly shorter wheel base, but again, just trying to wrap my head around what this really does...Good info. Thanks -Brian

[Y'ernat Al]

Finally got the car driving the way I like it Moved the top of the front shocks to the outside hole (stood the shocks up). Cars turns in with authority, rear end stays planted very well too. Only change it needed.....

..I ran my local outdoor track recently (with the TLR22 big bores) and the car really needs the rear droop, I could tell landing the bigger jumps......

JK. Do you still have the 22 shocks stood up too? (I think) I like my (own drilled) inner hole on the tower and the outermost on the rear arm (as a method to get progressive rate), and the battery shoved way forward to work against the bottoming out tendency. If you lay the shocks down you got other things to change too probably, but adding droop may introduce a whole other ball of messy wax. Fun fun fun.

[JK Racing]

standing the shocks up more was the front end. I am still running the 22 shocks, I am working on a lowered rear tower currently. the car lacks rear droop, shocks fully extended is barely below level. at the rear, i have the tops of the shocks the furthest inside on a worlds tower. when i had standard ae shocks in the rear, i had just a hair short of the stock droop you could have without rounding the corners on the rear arms (and almost pulling the bones out of the outdrive cups), the car landed big jumps better with them, but feels so much smoother overall and easier to drive with the big bores. once i regain the rear droop, i can feel more confident on taking the larger jumps and not worrying about my poor driving habits of not down-siding the jumps and landing in the flats.

[Lonestar]

but I'm pretty sure that silicone oil doesn't change viscosity with temperature- (might be wrong though).

a good article here

http://www.rcrcr.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56:shock-oil-cps-vs-wt&catid=31:general&Itemid=46

on that pic it just looks like the car is rolling too much, so springs are too soft for the amount of available grip... the stiff oil sure doesnt help the car come back to flat once out of the turn, but to me the spring/rollcenter combination is too soft to start with...



paul, internet engineer

[Y'ernat Al]

Copy that. Yeah with the 22 shocks probably necessitate a new tower. That makes sense.

How do the 22 dimensions compare with the B4 rear shocks? Because there is that lower tower to fit the B4's out there now, it may help you, at least as a starting point. Make sure and post what you come up with, obviously .

[Charlie don't surf]

but I'm pretty sure that silicone oil doesn't change viscosity with temperature- (might be wrong though).

a good article here

http://www.rcrcr.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56:shock-oil-cps-vs-wt&catid=31:general&Itemid=46

on that pic it just looks like the car is rolling too much, so springs are too soft for the amount of available grip... the stiff oil sure doesnt help the car come back to flat once out of the turn, but to me the spring/rollcenter combination is too soft to start with...



paul, internet engineer

interesting figures on the oil comparisons! If its above 40c I'm not racing though!! but on that, I wonder if the change in values of oil viscosity aren't synergistic to the traction as those temps increase or decrease anyway? On the East Coast anyway, the surfaces hold more moisture at lower temps, say between 65-85f optimally. Beyond those temps the track surface starts to dry out and slick off (and I saw no groove @the track Joey was on at 106). So if the oil "thins" at higher than average temps and the traction decreases too, isn't it really just smart fluid?

[JK Racing]

(and I saw no groove @the track Joey was on at 106). So if the oil "thins" at higher than average temps and the traction decreases too, isn't it really just smart fluid?

40C=104, we were above that

I didnt see a groove like in previous races, but traction was very, very high (and very abrasive). It was 106 in the shade that day, 100 the next day. I was being overly cautious with temps, first time running boosted 17.5, no fan on the speedo. I didnt want to burn anything up. Car sitting in the shade, with a fan on it was 108 before putting a battery in it. Motor would come off the track @ 145, chassis @ 130, tires (after turn marshalling) were still 130+. Track surface was over 160 the time I was goofing off checking it while attempting to set up slipper up.

Because there is that lower tower to fit the B4's out there now

That has been ordered , 3mm version front and rear.

[jwscab]

looks like you might want a smidge more camber gain in the rear too, maybe try moving the inner ball out on the rear bulkhead. The outside tire looks like it has a little positive camber on it. Of course, if you get the chassis to roll less, this probably goes away.