Who needs LiPo?!

[OldSchoolGuy]

I have run my revived TC3 a few times now and just got a second, used RTR TC3 for my son that has been run a few times as well. Both cars have brushless motors and ESC's but are from the pre-LiPo era, so do not have low voltage cut off. My sole car battery I still have, an ancient, close to twenty year old NiMh 3000 mAh battery still works but definitely doesn't have the punch or run times it did when new. My son's RTR didn't come with a motor battery either. So since I still have my Reedy Quasar Pro NiCd/NiMh peak charger than can also cycle and discharge as well, and not ready to invest in a full blown LiPo setup yet, I decided to get a couple of 3300mAh Dynamite NiMh's from my LHS. I have yet to find the run times possible on those batteries because either crashes disabled the car and run session (my son who is a new driver), or my ancient, probably 20+ year old Futaba NiCd transmitter batteries in my Futaba FP-T3PB Magnum PCM1024 transmitter died before the motor battery.

Honestly, to me, LiPo's seem like they are just plain dangerous! Can't ever leave them unattended while charging, should be put in fireproof enclosures while charging, a hard impact could turn your vehicle into an inferno, can't overcharge, can't let them get too low, all seem to end in explosion and/or battery death. Why do I need to go LiPo when NiMh's are still plenty cheap, reliable and seem to be way safer?! Plus the run time so far with the 33000's is still longer than I have been able to discover and there are 5000mAh NiMh out there too.

So, am I just being a wus? Just suck it up and do what everyone else seems to be doing? For sure, if/when I do jump to LiPo, I'll be getting a high end charger that can charge at least two at a time, still has NiMh capability and something with good balance current capability. Still researching what's out there but the HiTec RDX2 Pro and Gens Ace IMAR D300 both look good so far.

[Dadio]

You make a very cogent argument and for the most part NiMH are still a good choice , racers like lipo because there is very little volt drop under load , a NiMH 8.4v battery under load is likely going to drop to 7v ish under load and lipo's retain their voltage much better under load ,further lipo's have higher energy density (more power in lighter battery ) . For the most part if your not racing these factor mean very little .
I would have also to point out I've been using lipo battery's for about 20 years in Airsoft guns and RC and I've never had a fire , I have had a NiMH fire due to a dead short , probably would have been worse with a lipo ....

[1911Colt]

The dangers of LiPo have been massively exaggerated. Don't try to charge them with an arc welder and you will be fine.

That said, nope, you don't need them. This hobby is about having fun and wasting money. As long as you are smiling and teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, you are doing great!

[OldSchoolGuy]

Thanks guys for the feedback! I kinda figured the dangers are extreme cases but nevertheless, they are out there and you need to be aware. I'm sure that at some point, I'll be jumping over to some LiPo's because old battery technology is slowly going away and I'm interested to try them out. I've been doing research on the technology and I guess like anything else, there is a learning curve. I still have my battery pack building jigs and a bunch of copper battery bars and heavy gauge silicone wire, but trying to find appropriate NiMh cells that are high discharge rate compatible are turning out to be much harder than I thought!

[Dangeruss]

The dangers of LiPo have been massively exaggerated. Don't try to charge them with an arc welder and you will be fine.

That said, nope, you don't need them. This hobby is about having fun and wasting money. As long as you are smiling and teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, you are doing great!

That's a great response... I'd give it two thumbs up but I blew them off charging my lipo's with an arc welder! bzzzzzBANG!!

People worry about the dangers of Lipo yet carry a ticking time bomb in their pocket? Does anyone charge their cell phone in a fireproof case?

I remember RCCA articles from back in the day on how you were suppose to charge your Ni-Cd's in a fireproof box. IIRC they recommended metal lunch boxes and metal pen boxes.

I like my Lipo charger... does LiHV to alkaline, delta peak to storage charge/discharge... lets me run all the old stuff and the new stuff too.

But I agree with 911Colt... as long as you're having fun... you're doing it right.

[JosephS]

Thanks guys for the feedback! I kinda figured the dangers are extreme cases but nevertheless, they are out there and you need to be aware. I'm sure that at some point, I'll be jumping over to some LiPo's because old battery technology is slowly going away and I'm interested to try them out. I've been doing research on the technology and I guess like anything else, there is a learning curve. I still have my battery pack building jigs and a bunch of copper battery bars and heavy gauge silicone wire, but trying to find appropriate NiMh cells that are high discharge rate compatible are turning out to be much harder than I thought!

Try and stick to the better brand and treat them nicely and lipo should be fine.
Lipo gets into trouble when they get unbalanced, charge or discharge too fast. Good chargers and good batteries should be fine. I had a cheaper battery puff up, but not explode.

For bashing around vintage nimh seems fine. I have some lipos and I don't seem to have more fun with one vs another. It's a big deal for racing.

[Coelacanth]

Good info, but one major downside to NiMH batteries that hasn't been mentioned is they lose their ability to take a full charge over time. That NiMH battery you haven't used for 3 years probably won't last more than a minute on a full charge anymore. Every cordless tool with NiMH batteries suffers this fate, and replacement battery packs are always almost as expensive as a whole new tool...plus they're all Made In China and the replacements will probably crap out in 3 months. That's what happened with the "high capacity" battery pack I bought for a Dyson vacuum when the OEM battery died after about a year. The Chinese knock-off battery worked great at first, but stopped taking a charge after 3 months.

I was troubleshooting issues with one of my RC cars and a used-to-be-brand-new 8.4V NiMH pack that was sitting on a shelf for several years. The problem turned out to be the battery because although it would take a full charge and show good voltage, it would dump within a minute. Happens to all NiMH batteries; happened to all my old cordless tools.

If you use them and put them through charge/discharge cycles frequently, they probably last longer, but storing LiPo batteries and still have them work like new is one of their bigger benefits.

[OldSchoolGuy]

Great posts everyone! One question I have though that @Coelacanth brought up. I was told by my LHS owner that LiPo's have to be stored with a storage charge (which I already knew) and pretty much be maintained at all times if they aren't going to be used for several months or even years, else the voltage drops below the threshold while sitting around not being maintained, and then you will need a new one. So he basically said I need to keep them off and on the charger continuously, lets say over winter. Yes? No? Bad info?

[R6cowboy]

Honestly, to me, LiPo's seem like they are just plain dangerous! Can't ever leave them unattended while charging, should be put in fireproof enclosures while charging, a hard impact could turn your vehicle into an inferno, can't overcharge, can't let them get too low, all seem to end in explosion and/or battery death.

This exactly. Ever since I turned over to LiPo batteries, I worry every single day that they're going to spontaneously combust and burn my house down. Kicking of course. All, or 99.99%, of the horror stories you've heard about LiPo batteries are from outright carelessness and/or plain stupidity. There are a few very simple tips to follow which will prevent the homestead from suffering a fire blazing fate, or at least significantly lower the chance of a puffed up LiPo cell. Get a good charger (the Hitec RDX2 Pro is a nice unit), always put them on the "storage charge" setting of your charger prior to putting them away and not in use, store them in very inexpensive LiPo bags to be safe, and always "balance charge" before using them. Very simple stuff.
The extra performance and battery life of LiPo compared to NiMH is noticeable and well worth the very little extra maintenance they require. But also, they're not absolutely necessary. I still use both in my RC's.

[R6cowboy]

Great posts everyone! One question I have though that @Coelacanth brought up. I was told by my LHS owner that LiPo's have to be stored with a storage charge (which I already knew) and pretty much be maintained at all times if they aren't going to be used for several months or even years, else the voltage drops below the threshold while sitting around not being maintained, and then you will need a new one. So he basically said I need to keep them off and on the charger continuously, lets say over winter. Yes? No? Bad info?

From my 5 years experience with LiPo's, and I'm still using my very first 2S LiPo battery from 2018, it's not a bad idea to put them on the charger every few months if they're going to sit for extended periods of time. But I know I've gone 6, 7, maybe even 8 months at a time without using or charging some (even though probably not ideal). And all of them are still work perfectly fine to this day.
But to be on and off the charger continuously, is a bit of BS if you ask me. Maintaining them once a month or two is playing it super safe in keeping them in top notch shape.

[OldSchoolGuy]

I finally had a chance to see what the run time with my NiMh 3300mAh battery would be on my TC3 with Novak Super Sport brushless system is... about 30 minutes. That was on a five day old charge, and with an almost new Dynamite battery charged at a 1C rate. It's only had maybe three or four charge cycles through it so far. It's been a challenge to get a whole run in before something happened to stop the fun. First it was my ancient TRX NiCd batteries died in only 15 minutes. (Now replaced with 1700mAh NiMh and been running for almost three hours with no signs of dropping power according to the TRX meter). Then I picked up some pebbles/sand that destroyed my spur gear teeth. And now that I finally got a full run in, I now need new tires!

My son's TC3 has had its share of mishaps as well. Due to a couple of errant driving mistakes into immovable objects (he's a new driver), the case mounting screw threads in his Team Orion brushless aluminum motor case have ripped out. I'd like to repair it with either a M3 Helicoil or epoxying in an M3 steel nut inside the case. Although it would be the easiest, I'd rather not drill it out and oversize it and make it a one off screw size. Any suggestions? But for now, I will probably just get a new motor. Something sized approximately as the old to match it up with its mating ESC.

[JosephS]

I finally had a chance to see what the run time with my NiMh 3300mAh battery would be on my TC3 with Novak Super Sport brushless system is... about 30 minutes. That was on a five day old charge, and with an almost new Dynamite battery charged at a 1C rate. It's only had maybe three or four charge cycles through it so far. It's been a challenge to get a whole run in before something happened to stop the fun. First it was my ancient TRX NiCd batteries died in only 15 minutes. (Now replaced with 1700mAh NiMh and been running for almost three hours with no signs of dropping power according to the TRX meter). Then I picked up some pebbles/sand that destroyed my spur gear teeth. And now that I finally got a full run in, I now need new tires!

My son's TC3 has had its share of mishaps as well. Due to a couple of errant driving mistakes into immovable objects (he's a new driver), the case mounting screw threads in his Team Orion brushless aluminum motor case have ripped out. I'd like to repair it with either a M3 Helicoil or epoxying in an M3 steel nut inside the case. Although it would be the easiest, I'd rather not drill it out and oversize it and make it a one off screw size. Any suggestions? But for now, I will probably just get a new motor. Something sized approximately as the old to match it up with its mating ESC.

Do you have a picture? Is the motor can the damaged item? This may be a great opportunity to drop in a slower motor until his driving can catchup with the cars speed.

[OldSchoolGuy]

I haven't taken a picture of the can (yet), but yes, one of the two threaded mounting holes in the aluminum can has had the threads ripped out of it. The problem was already there when I got the car off eBay but it seemed at the time I worked on it that the screw used to mount it just wasn't long enough. It barely went in to engage the threads. So I put in a new longer screw that engaged all of the threads. It seemed fairly secure when I put it back in the car but only a few threads of soft aluminum to hold a heavy motor in a high deceleration impact was just too much for it.

Another question. I initially thought to use an M3 Helicoil repair kit but now that I think about it, I'm wondering if the metal can is even thick enough to do this on. There is an M3 repair kit on Amazon for about $15. Has anyone successfully tried this? It may be easiest to simply epoxy in a steel nut on the inside of the can. Worst case I can always oversize it and rethread to M4 but I wanted to avoid having to modify anything it might be installed in in the future.

I sent an email to the USA distributor for Team Orion (a Swiss company) and he told me the ESC in my son's car was made before his time and he didn't know much about it other than the spec sheet and suggested I not go over the 2400Kv motor it was running. My son's TC3 with that 2400Kv and the gearing in it is already quite a bit slower than my TC3, and I can always turn down the throttle ATV to shave off the top end. This is actually what I did when I first handed him the transmitter.

[1911Colt]

Good example of lipo use:

I ran my Beetle on a 3S/2100/10C lipo this morning. The battery is at least 13 years old. I used it in various RC planes over the years. It has been through countless charge/discharge cycles. It has survived several airframe-destroying plane crashes.

It is not a fluke, as I have many more with a similar history. I haven't bought an RC plane battery since 2015, so all are at least that old.

The key to their longevity, I think, is that I charge at 1C and always put them in storage mode.

[JosephS]

I haven't taken a picture of the can (yet), but yes, one of the two threaded mounting holes in the aluminum can has had the threads ripped out of it. The problem was already there when I got the car off eBay but it seemed at the time I worked on it that the screw used to mount it just wasn't long enough. It barely went in to engage the threads. So I put in a new longer screw that engaged all of the threads. It seemed fairly secure when I put it back in the car but only a few threads of soft aluminum to hold a heavy motor in a high deceleration impact was just too much for it.

Another question. I initially thought to use an M3 Helicoil repair kit but now that I think about it, I'm wondering if the metal can is even thick enough to do this on. There is an M3 repair kit on Amazon for about $15. Has anyone successfully tried this? It may be easiest to simply epoxy in a steel nut on the inside of the can. Worst case I can always oversize it and rethread to M4 but I wanted to avoid having to modify anything it might be installed in in the future.

I sent an email to the USA distributor for Team Orion (a Swiss company) and he told me the ESC in my son's car was made before his time and he didn't know much about it other than the spec sheet and suggested I not go over the 2400Kv motor it was running. My son's TC3 with that 2400Kv and the gearing in it is already quite a bit slower than my TC3, and I can always turn down the throttle ATV to shave off the top end. This is actually what I did when I first handed him the transmitter.

I would think you can use a strong epoxy putty and retap the holes. Depending on the can you can drill a pair if holes offset from the original ones.

Or just tap it for an m3.5 thread and use a larger screw.

It seems like the $15 for a repair kit could be better spent towards a different motor, used or new. It seems odd to rip out motor mount screws on a mild setup like you described.