So why did the RC10 lose at the IFMAR 1987 again?

[Lowgear]

After following both topics, to me it all boils down to you win some you lose some. There doesn't seem to be a specific reason why it happened, It was a combination of factors that caused Kyosho to win. It's not like the Ultima destroyed the competition did it? As in any race, luck plays a factor. Someone has to cross the finish line first, and it just happened to be Joel Johnson that year. I don't know, I'm just spitballin' here.

[scr8p]

Associated antenna mount and ball cups on the steering on Joel's car. 'Nuf said.

[juicedcoupe]

Associated antenna mount and ball cups on the steering on Joel's car. 'Nuf said.

I had (have) an 80's Kyosho car. The ball cups would come off it you looked at them funny, even when new.

[XLR8]

After following both topics, to me it all boils down to you win some you lose some. There doesn't seem to be a specific reason why it happened, It was a combination of factors that caused Kyosho to win. It's not like the Ultima destroyed the competition did it? As in any race, luck plays a factor. Someone has to cross the finish line first, and it just happened to be Joel Johnson that year. I don't know, I'm just spitballin' here.

No, I think you've got it exactly right.
If you've followed NASCAR as I have for decades, you might have noticed there are more first-time winners of the Daytona 500 who didn't manage to win another race throughout their entire career than just about any other event on the calendar. For some reason, the biggest races just seem to result in luck being a major factor.

[HS-YZ250]

I had (have) an 80's Kyosho car. The ball cups would come off it you looked at them funny, even when new.

Must be why they used the captured rod end so much. When I got my first Lazer I was surprised that the plastic was similarly compliant as the Rocky, after looking at my LXT and Pro SE's fiber reinforced parts all these years. Kyosho must have tried to use the same resin for everything. I've had that fight with the materials group a couple times at my job.

"Why are you using this special composite blend that doesn't self destruct near loctite when you can use this cheaper resin we already have that splits in half in a minute!?"

No, I think you've got it exactly right.
If you've followed NASCAR as I have for decades, you might have noticed there are more first-time winners of the Daytona 500 who didn't manage to win another race throughout their entire career than just about any other event on the calendar. For some reason, the biggest races just seem to result in luck being a major factor.

People go harder when the race is more prestigious for sure. I used to race hare scrambles and the big series is the GNCC. I only did a couple rounds of the nationals a year because it was too far to travel, but stopped that when I started seeing quads flying in the air where there were no jumps because everyone thought if they won the C class in turn 1, Honda would sponsor them. You almost had to be a pro level rider in the amateur ranks to be consistent, there.

[RCveteran]

AE always seems like Porsche to me at IFMAR at least. They flood the grid. I don't know about today but in a lot of old racing series of 80's and 90's, 25 say of the 30 cars on the grid were a Porsche, odds are they would podium at least then. Bit simplified but just my anecdotal observation.

Take the recent IFMAR, it was like 80% AE. The fact that TLR won 2wd is even less likely. Does that mean the TLR is "better" No, the stars aligned that day for the driver, tires, motor, guy in front making a mistake etc like any race.

Much like 1987 I suspect, or it could be the Ultima is just a better car, there, that should keep this thread going

[Frankentruck]

JJ did use an excellent Trinity buggy that happened to have some Kyosho parts on it. Did he ever use that buggy in a race again afterwards?
.

[RCveteran]

JJ did use an excellent Trinity buggy that happened to have some Kyosho parts on it. Did he ever use that buggy in a race again afterwards?

He used it in a different dimension where he dominated the racing field for the next decade. Masami also ran his 89 and 91 "RC10" there.

[Coelacanth]

Associated antenna mount and ball cups on the steering on Joel's car. 'Nuf said.

I had (have) an 80's Kyosho car. The ball cups would come off it you looked at them funny, even when new.

Indeed, especially those 5.8mm pillow balls and open-end ball ends. Swapping over to 4.8mm ball studs and ball cups is a decent upgrade.

[1911Colt]

I guessed wrong and replied to the other thread; all of the activity is here.

My take is that always AE had the best race team, but not necessarily the best buggy.

In 85, they had the best buggy and they won. In 87, Kyosho did and they won.

By 89, though, I think the racing had moved far, far away from the kits sold to the public, and AE had assembled the dream team. That group of folks would still have won if they had run Kyosho, Losi, Schumacher, whatever, because they would have just scratch built a solution to whatever weakness the buggy had. They would have basically built a prototype racer, which is what they did for AE.

It is like F1. The Red Bull that is winning everything this year is not a product of the energy drink company. The team of Max Verstappen and Adrian Newey are winning. Red Bull is writing checks.

[limestang]

This has been a very interesting thread. Here’s my take - I think Kyosho had a competitive car setup for the track conditions, and then Joel was the best driver that year and won. F1 and other racing, the cars are so closely matched, the pit team often makes the difference. Here it’s the driver.

- limestang

[Frankentruck]

The magic tires, I can see them!
.

.
https://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?p=556015#p556015

[AscotConversion]

It's pretty simple, Associated was still using a lot of the original RC10. No Stealth trans, 6 gear... Look at the short arm cars in this picture with the Kondo and Moore cars from RCMC UK's coverage:

The Ultima was a fairly new car with longer arms, probably a better transmission and apparently, better tires as well.

As far as the MIP 2wd RC10 cars, it was a trailing arm car, with a graphite chassis and short RC10 arms. I would have to assume the MIP transmission as well.

Is this short changing the Ultima? Not at all. It just was a period where Associated was still riding out the original RC10's performance. The Ultima and the soon to arrive JRX2 was going to force AE to introduce the stealth trans, and the longer front arm set to keep up. I would think a Team car or Worlds car would have been more competitive had they been around. As it has been pointed out, they did fine in 1993.

[1300GT]

Kyosho superior, Associated inferior.
(In his best Soundwave voice.)

Sorry Jason, I couldn't help myself.

[scr8p]

Kyosho superior, Associated inferior.
(In his best Soundwave voice.)

Sorry Jason, I couldn't help myself.

Well, Kyosho is still popping out vintage cars and AE is not. So in that respect yes.... true statement.