New Appreciation of old house power

[Dadio]

With a recently purchased car I found included a rather nice looking old motor , a Trinity Monster Horsepower 1987 World Champions , I did have a little surf to try and find more info and realised it was fairly special originally , mine is in slightly scruffy condition so not worth a hill of beans but internally is in very good shape and I've been using it a bit in the car , the cars a PB Mini Mustang and it was the normal transmition as I got it , with a 2s lipo it went pretty well ,nearly keeping up with a friends brushless CAT , anyway I recently fitted the 2 speed transmition that was a factory option on the Mini Mustang and I've got to say it flew ! Way faster than any brushed car I'd ever driven anyway I've been mindful of only running until the motor started heating up , always stopping while I could still comfortably touch the motor .
So I started thinking of going brushless mostly just for the longer run times so I ordered a 13.5t Trackstar sensored combo to use in it , I've been running a 17.5t in one of my 834b's and I have a few other Trackstar motors and I've always considered them a good mid range motor , anyway I fitted it last night and tested it this morning ..... The old school brushed Trinity motor was faster ! In fact i had to up the timing on the brushless motor to get it to change gear ! That's got to mean the Trinity motor is on par with maybe a 10.5t brushless motor !
I guess I had limited exposure to really hot motors back in the day but I did have a Kyosho LeMans 240 mod motor and it was fast , a few people had the Tamiya Mabuchi RS540SD black motors but it was a school club and it was mostly stock class we raced , the hotter motors were really something we bashed with .

[Basher67]

Some of those old brushed motors really put out some good power. I've got the matched set of forward/reverse rotation trinity monster mash motors in my clodbuster and everyone assumes it's brushless powered when they see it run. When guys ask me what kind of motors I run, I just say, "some old brushed motors". I have a 14t quad motor in my grasshopper 2 that I race my buddy with. He has a 17.5 brushless in his grasshopper 2. Mine is a little faster. All that being said, I don't think I've ever seen any brushed motor that could produce the power that my Reedy S Plus 17.5 puts out, let alone the 13.5 version that's in my short course trucks.

[XLR8]

One of my racer friends bitd was sponsored by Fantom and he kept me supplied with motors - and I still have them. They're incredibly powerful, even by today's standards.
Could some of amazing torque produced by those old brushed motors be due to the size (diameter) of the armature? Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those old motor armatures larger than the rotors found in today's 540-based brushless motors? Anyway, it was just a thought. Unfortunately, I no longer run brushed motors due to maintenance requirements - I've become spoiled by the simplicity of brushless technology. lol
Just a drop of oil in the bearings and you're good to go.

[jwscab]

brushed motors for sure still have lots of power. the magnetic fields are still roughly the same, but the brushless construction leads to better efficiency. So you get the same or better power within the same windings comparison.

there is no commutator, or, it is now electronically implemented, so you don't waste power. The rotor is typically a rare earth magnet, so it's got a stronger more focused field. the wasted power is obvious in how quickly a brushed motor heats up, the energy is converted into heat.

with no addition friction from springs and brushes, you gain even further efficiency.

[dinglem]

Brushed motors were plenty quick enough back in the day... not so many racers could go a full 5 minute race without a series of stacks, so adding more power and speed with brushless motors only compounds the issue.

Sure you will get more speed and efficiency between crashes now, but a bit of the magic has been lost for me. I am actively trying to return to the old cells and brushed power for the vintage classes. I only race a couple of times a year anyway so am never going to be competitive, and so i think slowing things down will actually result in quicker times (for me at least). Plus, brushless motors look terrible, particularly in vintage machinery.

I have some very powerful ex-team brushed motors - many of which are way too quick for me as things currently stand.

Plus, you only need to last for 5 minutes (as i keep telling my wife!)

[Dadio]

brushed motors for sure still have lots of power. the magnetic fields are still roughly the same, but the brushless construction leads to better efficiency. So you get the same or better power within the same windings comparison.

there is no commutator, or, it is now electronically implemented, so you don't waste power. The rotor is typically a rare earth magnet, so it's got a stronger more focused field. the wasted power is obvious in how quickly a brushed motor heats up, the energy is converted into heat.

with no addition friction from springs and brushes, you gain even further efficiency.

I fully understand the science , I'd just never really driven a car back to back with a powerful brushed motor and then a brushless system

[Basher67]

Even the most powerful brushed motors can't really compete with high end brushless motors regardless of turns. It's true that a trackstar 17.5 motor can be easily outshined by some of the old high power brushed motors, but the high end motors, such as the latest 17.5 offerings by Reedy, R1, and Trinity have more hp, torque and rpm than any brushed motor that I've ever seen. I run a 17.5 Reedy S-Plus in my b6 and the acceleration and top speed are ridiculously fast for a stock class car. Even when compared to the previous Reedy M3, it is significantly faster. I bring this up to point out that there is a wide range of performance output among brushless motors of the same turn. I agree though, that running brushed motors in vintage cars just feels right.

[Dadio]

I love the idea of brushed motors in vintage cars but I must admit that the 5 min run then let it cool before another run means that multiple cars are needed (no bad thing) to give a good run time .
This year I mean to start collecting vintage brushed ESC's to fit in some of my cars , I fully agree that seeing modern electronics in vintage cars looks wrong so I'll have also to look for old school radio gear and servo's at least for display .

[Basher67]

I love vintage Novak electronics in my shelfers. With my runners with brushed motors, I try to find the esc's with high amp capacity with reverse. Most of the time i'll use a Traxxas xl5 or an old Novak Rooster. The xl5 is handy if you want to run lipo bats with your brushed system.

[RC10th]

The large comm Reedy motors (Sonic/2) were powerhouses. I had an 8 turn Reedy KR quad mag motor and it was a wheelie machine.


Agreed on the wide spectrum of performance between motor, the 17.5 and 13.5 touring car guys would spend thousands on motors trying to keep up and find the next faster motor.

I had a Hobbywing V10 10.5T on a Hobbywing V3.1 ESC in stock spec blinky stadium truck and it was noticably faster and more powerful then everyone else, people thought I was cheating. I actually think the ESC is what made the difference as a few others tried V3.1's and felt like they picked up some poke.

[Dadio]

I'm happy with the performance of the Trackstar ESC's and motors but I don't race so I'm just looking for sprightly performance ,long run times and reliability , almost all my cars are runners and I'd rather not ruin nice vintage electronics but it does look more the part for display .