ROAR bans Trinity d3.5 17.5 spec motor

[kaiser]

Any of you you guys affected by this? kinda crazy: http://www.roarracing.com/?p=1842

I don't own the motor, or race in any ROAR sanctioned events. We loosely follow their rules for track dimensions and stuff like that but for the most part all of our classes are mod/open at the local track.

I know a lot of guys that do though and they run this motor. They are not happy campers.

[Charlie don't surf]

It's really a 15.5 by wire length, thats the Issue

[Lonestar]

It's really a 15.5 by wire length, thats the Issue

Good Ol' Ernie... he really can't help himself, can he...

[Charlie don't surf]

It's really a 15.5 by wire length, thats the Issue

Good Ol' Ernie... he really can't help himself, can he...

This was Deiters trick, but no....Ernie never could

[kaiser]

i thought is was more about diameter then length. either way, there sure are alot of angry racers.

[Charlie don't surf]

i thought is was more about diameter then length. either way, there sure are alot of angry racers.

That might be the final nail in the coffin- The 1st issue with the D3.5 17.5 was the stator length, Imagine a 27t stock motor with an armature web length of 1" and a 3 pole rotor, you would then have 27 windings of 22 awg wire (6" per winding) for a total of 162" of wire with a resistance of *8 ohms* within the wire. Now reduce the web length on a "short stack" armature at 7/8".... it's still 27t's of 22awg wire but now you have a total length of wire that is 144" and has *7.2 ohms* and subsequently much faster as a "stock" motor- (Deiter got around that loophole of inductance readings because there was no inductance baseline for 17.5's other than what was measured across a sample of the particular motor ie- every brand was different from the start- "acceptable" meant within range of average inductance for that brand motor

Now, add that lower than average inductance with a small rotor and you have a low resistance motor with a much higher RPM range than all other 17.5's (which are known for torque and not RPM) the roll outs for the D3.5's vs the Thunder Power motors vary as much as 12 teeth in DD-

Further.... there are a slew of things yet on BL "stock" motors to push the envelope way further than it's at right now. Airflow within the stator and rotor for example can decrease motor temps by 35f easy (one of the reasons for the big ass hole in the D3.5 endplate) but they haven't started playing with the rotor surface to turbulate air, or to add or decrease the Hall Effect within the rotor itself changing the magnetic field. No one has yet to play with unequal stator lengths per section changing that electro-magnetic field to a "pulse" instead of a linear field etc-

bottom line is it's like poker or Moore's Law, you don't show your whole hand every time you release something if your going to continue to stay on the top

[Coelacanth]

Racing...it's all "cheat until you get caught". Use any edge to give you an unfair advantage until others clue in, and the rules get revised to level the playing field.

[slotcarrod]

i thought is was more about diameter then length. either way, there sure are alot of angry racers.

That might be the final nail in the coffin- The 1st issue with the D3.5 17.5 was the stator length, Imagine a 27t stock motor with an armature web length of 1" and a 3 pole rotor, you would then have 27 windings of 22 awg wire (6" per winding) for a total of 162" of wire with a resistance of *8 ohms* within the wire. Now reduce the web length on a "short stack" armature at 7/8".... it's still 27t's of 22awg wire but now you have a total length of wire that is 144" and has *7.2 ohms* and subsequently much faster as a "stock" motor- (Deiter got around that loophole of inductance readings because there was no inductance baseline for 17.5's other than what was measured across a sample of the particular motor ie- every brand was different from the start- "acceptable" meant within range of average inductance for that brand motor

Now, add that lower than average inductance with a small rotor and you have a low resistance motor with a much higher RPM range than all other 17.5's (which are known for torque and not RPM) the roll outs for the D3.5's vs the Thunder Power motors vary as much as 12 teeth in DD-

Further.... there are a slew of things yet on BL "stock" motors to push the envelope way further than it's at right now. Airflow within the stator and rotor for example can decrease motor temps by 35f easy (one of the reasons for the big ass hole in the D3.5 endplate) but they haven't started playing with the rotor surface to turbulate air, or to add or decrease the Hall Effect within the rotor itself changing the magnetic field. No one has yet to play with unequal stator lengths per section changing that electro-magnetic field to a "pulse" instead of a linear field etc-

bottom line is it's like poker or Moore's Law, you don't show your whole hand every time you release something if your going to continue to stay on the top

Wow Reggie! Seems you are always a wealth of knowledge, are you sure your spending enough time studying for your nursing degree??? Great info BTW! As for Ernie and Trinity !

[Charlie don't surf]

I was on "study break"

There's way more still.... one of the best tricks in 27t stock racing besides re-wound 21t motors were home made speedos. basically like drag speedos, only one option- all stop, or all go- (these haven't made it into BL just yet) one of my greatest tricks that brought me a State Championship and two Summernationals wins in 06' was to apply this to Modified racing using a LRP ipc SR with no resistor block, a relatively high wind mod for oval (10x3 H/V split wind Checkpoint) and when setting my transmitter to the ESC I would dial in about 50% drag brake at the transmitter, then go through syncing them together. After that was done you would bring your transmitter ATL back to 0, and your throttle was light switch- 2mm pull and you were full throttle instantly.
The warm-up race before the Nats was at the home track of Multi-National Champ Pete D'Agnolo who was also the track record holder. I went to the race, qualified 2nd out of 60 and Pete was about 4/10ths faster than me overall. I'm outside front row, Pete is on the inside (both of us are really quick to start on the tone, non of that wait for the tone to finish sounding then go thing) tone starts and I lay into it, cross in front of Pete and apex the corner at full wood and I'm entering the next turn before anyone else is off the first turn, led the race for the next 3 min on Pete's tail trying to lap him, and we were 2 laps up on everyone else. L/F upper shock mount self adjusted up by 10mm and the car went to hell, but the trick worked.

[wyldbill]

i was using a modified tekin esc's with some ultra low on resistance fet's that i was able to get through work. the cost something like 75 bucks a piece that we got through digi-key a i ordered like 15 of them, work paid for them and never questioned it. they were 2-3 times lower in on resistance than the ones tekin put in the g-9's because those were the ones i was cross-referencing to. i put them in one of my g-9's and oh my god were they a kick in the ass. i also did some other tricks inside to like changing the caps in the re-generation circuit and adding shunt wires.

[Charlie don't surf]

Just found out something interesting on the D3.5 thing....my dad is still an avid carpet oval racer (ask Bscotti ) and word on the street is that Mike Boylan (snowbirds promoter) was approached by ROAR to have the Snowbird Nationals as a ROAR multi national event with full ROAR staff and attendants being required to be ROAR members...also, I heard that the D3.5 ban was announced 10 days before the Snowbirds was set to start right after Boylan declined to have the Birds' become a full ROAR event...

[JK Racing]

I read it was wire thickness (alleged)?

Either way, I am sure a few will show up on eBay pretty cheap. Fine for club racing

[kaiser]

Just found out something interesting on the D3.5 thing....my dad is still an avid carpet oval racer (ask Bscotti ) and word on the street is that Mike Boylan (snowbirds promoter) was approached by ROAR to have the Snowbird Nationals as a ROAR multi national event with full ROAR staff and attendants being required to be ROAR members...also, I heard that the D3.5 ban was announced 10 days before the Snowbirds was set to start right after Boylan declined to have the Birds' become a full ROAR event...

guys on tech are real worked up about this and the birds.

[Dirtdiver]

Looks like we will be back to handout motors at events.

[Charlie don't surf]

Looks like this is a real dividing line between club events and ROAR events, my dad was at CRC's pre birds race and everyone was still on d3.5's and Boylan is still running them as well.