Guns!

[MelvinsArmy]

I'm pretty neutral in the whole gun debate. My friends have guns and I enjoy shooting them now and then. I however have never owned a gun and have no plans to buy one. I don't feel like I need one.

Those are interesting facts Rod. But when the government wants to come get you, do you honestly think you're going to stop them with your gun? David Koresh, Pablo Escobar, Osama Bin Laden, etc, all had more guns than they needed and they knew very well how to use them. If we want to start making lists, the list of heavily armed and dangerous bad-asses who've been rounded up and killed by the government is pretty long.

[Charlie don't surf]

I target shoot the most, I enjoy seeing how good a grouping I can get! It has a calming effect on me, may be the breathing control but I feel great after a few hours at the range! I also love the history of guns and appreciate the uses in peace and war! If only some of my WWII issued guns could talk, the stories they could tell! Happy I'm not speaking German right now (even though I'm of German descent), would not want to be a Nazi!

Some interesting facts to dwell on:

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From
1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917,
1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to
1945, a total of 13 million peaceful citizens who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
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China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952,
20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to
1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979,
300,000 innocents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to
1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
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During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America
because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

SWITZERLAND ISSUES a gun to EVERY HOUSEHOLD and provides training! SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN-RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

To take it further as i understand it, males between the ages of 19-45 are required to carry a sidearm and have a full auto carbine issued by the swiss government at home at the ready.

This is because they have no official military other than their populous as i understand it-

[MelvinsArmy]

I guess the no standing army thing makes sense, since they are supposed to be neutral. Although a lot of people who's money magically disappeared from Swiss banks in the past century may not think they are neutral.

I am curious what you guys think we should do (if anything) in light of the shootings in the past couple weeks. I really have no clue what needs to be done, but I'm pretty sure we don't need armed guards and principals as the NRA spokesman suggested. I think that would be a very sad day.

[klavy69]

I am curious what you guys think we should do (if anything) in light of the shootings in the past couple weeks.

(pure opinion) nothing needs to be done. The crimes would've been done with or without gun control and with or without guns. That lunatic could've done the damage with anything and would've still done the damage and we'd still be in mourning over it.

As far as Adam's rifle. I like it...so yes, we need a like button . Guns have always been in my life, not in this caliber or range of gun but I respect them and what they can do...and have always been in awe of cool things (to me of course) and guess thats why I was into slot cars and r/c too

Todd

[Coelacanth]

I hate to say it but I think the problem is a cultural one. Over the past generation or so, something has really changed in America (Canada/USA primarily). Children grow up with a sense of entitlement that wasn't the case in our parents' time. You can't discipline your children anymore, you'll get charged with abuse. Social media & smartphones have only made this cultural shift worse, not better; see someone getting beaten up or abused? Whip out your phone and record a video for YouTube. Don't bother to think about helping. Media turns criminals into celebrities, spawning endless copy-cats. The justice system--especially in Canada--is absolutely ludicrous, the police drag 'em in and either they get released with barely a wrist-slap, or they serve laughably short sentences before being turned back into public. The rights of criminals are greater than what many free, law-abiding citizens enjoy.

Strange that you don't hear about crap like this in Mexico, our neighbor. Sure they have rampant drug crime, corruption etc., but you don't see children disrespecting their elders and shooting up schoolyards like we have further north. I can only suggest this is because of cultural differences and how children are raised there, and social media, because the majority of Mexican people don't even have easy access to internet, I'm guessing. We're all on the same continent but Mexico doesn't have some of the issues we have. They have their own problems, to be sure. Food for thought...

There has been a complete erosion of cultural and traditional values, it seems, and I don't know if there's a way to re-instill those values...or how to reverse the way social media has exploded in bad ways as much as good.

[MelvinsArmy]

I think you might be on to something there Coel. I saw a collection of Tweets (I'm not on Twitter) from kids complaining about getting the wrong color iPhone and/or other things for Christmas and saying how they hated their parents because of it. It was pretty amazing. I would say that kids aren't the only spoiled ones these days though, I see a heck of a lot of spoiled adults. Just look at the massive debt situation so many Americans are in.

[RC104ever]

I hate to say it but I think the problem is a cultural one. Over the past generation or so, something has really changed in America (Canada/USA primarily). Children grow up with a sense of entitlement that wasn't the case in our parents' time. You can't discipline your children anymore, you'll get charged with abuse. Social media & smartphones have only made this cultural shift worse, not better; see someone getting beaten up or abused? Whip out your phone and record a video for YouTube. Don't bother to think about helping. Media turns criminals into celebrities, spawning endless copy-cats. The justice system--especially in Canada--is absolutely ludicrous, the police drag 'em in and either they get released with barely a wrist-slap, or they serve laughably short sentences before being turned back into public. The rights of criminals are greater than what many free, law-abiding citizens enjoy.

Strange that you don't hear about crap like this in Mexico, our neighbor. Sure they have rampant drug crime, corruption etc., but you don't see children disrespecting their elders and shooting up schoolyards like we have further north. I can only suggest this is because of cultural differences and how children are raised there, and social media, because the majority of Mexican people don't even have easy access to internet, I'm guessing. We're all on the same continent but Mexico doesn't have some of the issues we have. They have their own problems, to be sure. Food for thought...

There has been a complete erosion of cultural and traditional values, it seems, and I don't know if there's a way to re-instill those values...or how to reverse the way social media has exploded in bad ways as much as good.

AMEN!! My parents (dad especially, RIP) used to always say how 'soft' we are here compared to where he grew up (Taiwan). My mom and her side of the family was pretty liberal but still expected you to address neighbours, teachers, elders etc by their proper titles, ie 'Mr / Mrs. Smith; Aunt Dora; Uncle John' you get the picture.

The big thing in Chinese / Asian culture has been and still is to a large extent, 'respect your teachers and your elders'. The stuff I read about in the paper about elder abuse, and the deplorable conditions in seniors homes just makes me sick. And what's worse is we fund it through tax payer dollars.

While I would like to think that *some* gun controls are in order, the suggestions from everyone seems to be more of a holistic approach and that I completely agree that we need to take the glamour and swagger out of owning a gun just for the sake of owning a gun. While I'm a Canuck, I certainly don't disagree with the American 2nd Amendment right. If you choose or wish to have one, get one. But I see no reason to have a high powered assault rifle at home. If those guns aren't as readily available, that makes it harder to have them on the streets, right?

Problem is, those guns and weapons are already out there, and judging by this thread - many of you own them yourselves. Again, I'm not saying you *shouldn't* have one - that was your choice to buy one. I'm just suggesting that it should be harder to obtain them. Then if you own one and want to sell it - the person you are selling to has to go through the same checks and then they have to be registered.

One guy I work with who was in the military said he had to go through 4 background checks, and in order to even get his license to carry a firearm, had to also do 2 additional psychiatric tests. Or something like that.

Maybe there needs to be additional screening? I don't know - everyone agrees something needs to be done but whatever they decide, it's only going to be a temporary measure and in order to have long lasting and cultural shift, I believe a big part of the equation will be what Coelacanth has said already.

Just my 2 pennies!

[kaiser]

here's a couple of pennies that i just found in the back corner of my brain:

for the argument of why would we need or want a 30 round mag or even guns in general, the same has been said about cars.
there's really no need for 1000hp cars, or cars that go faster then the speed limit, but there are.

why? because they are fun, and people will spend $$$ on fun, all types of fun.

fun = $$$$ profits, anything that = profits, wins.

[slotcarrod]

The Canadian (PAL Purchase and Acquisition License) system in my opinion works very well. As we must do basic training (mostly gun safety and understanding guns and laws) written test and hands on testing. Then once you pass you send away to the RCMP (CFO) and they look at any past history you may have to see if you "qualify" to possess/purchase a gun! One law we have that I do not like is 5 round mags for any rifle larger than 22RF! It sucks to reload that often at the range!

Marc, I think your statement is so true about young people these days and how they are coddled!

[flipwils11]

Wow, I had no idea sharing a pic of my purchase would generate this many replies. I had no guns in my home growing up and always supported 2nd amendment rights but never bothered to make a purchase for myself. I have always been very staunchly independent and a bit fearful of relying on suckling from the tit of society and the govt for too much, unlike many in our world today. In the US the response to hurricane Katrina was a good look at how far things can fall when the normal order of society and govt responders fails. It was a wake up call for me and I had been saying for a few years that I ought to be a bit more prepared, and not just on guns, but with a plan for me and my family that doesn't involve panicking when there is a run on food and supplies at the local grocery store. Also I didn't always have friends or family that were into going to the range for sport but more recently a few folks close to me got me into it and it was finally time to purchase my own.

Yes the AR15 is pretty far beyond a basic firearm, but who cares? It's fun to shoot, cool to look at, and if I had to ever use it to defend my family (a situation beyond home invasion) it could do a pretty good job. Like others said, it's like having a high powered car for fun, or anything else considered a luxury by others. It's a personal choice but not for everyone obviously.

Back to the govt discussion, I also firmly agree that any good govt must have a healthy fear of the governed not just that they are armed and thus could in theory rise up if needed, but on a more peaceful note, respect that the voters know what is going on and will vote to make necessary change. There is a dependency here to keep both of these rights! Without an armed citizenry, then who the F cares how motivated they are to vote for change? And an angry, armed adults with no right to vote... well that didn't work out so great for the British Crown in 1776 did it?

I do agree that some more stringent gun ownership controls are not a bad idea; tests, training, and certification. But never underestimate the govt to screw that up or pervert it for other purposes. For instance, drivers licenses are not ID cards, yet they are used for that purpose universally. Which perverts the process to obtain one to where they are handed out quite easily with little if any driver training. Therefore I hesitate to give the govt more power to restrict gun ownership.

[Charlie don't surf]

It is illegal for SSN#'s to be used for ID purposes, and its done every second-

[Dirtdiver]

Tonight (12/27/12) there is an article on USA Today called "TSA nabs record number of guns from carry-on bags". The article states, "A record number of guns -- more than 1,500 -- have been found by airport security screeners this year, and 85% have been loaded, the Transportation Security Administration reports."

WTF are people thinking packing loaded guns in their carry-ons? It's my opinion that if you can't properly secure your weapon than you shouldn't be given the opportunity to possess one ever again. There is no excuse for being careless with a firearm. This comes from someone (me) whose family has made/currently make a living as members of the military, police, gun store owners, working for a major firearms manufacturers, defense contractors, etc... I have no general issue with gun ownership for someone responsible and level headed. If your lacking these traits, you shouldn't be allowed to own any firearm nor should you have children (but thats another topic). Just my two cents.

[CamplinP]

I don't know what the answer may be but I am sick of all the knee-jerk reactions and finger pointing. The kid was a known wacko and should have been in some sort of institution, but wait we can't do that in this society. The Lib media is part to blame. For a disturbed person looking for attention I think a week of 24/7 media coverage fits the bill. As for laws, look at the terrible ambush on the firefighters. The A hole was a convicted felon/murderer and was free. According to "LAWS" a convicted felon can't own firearms. Guess what? Criminals don't care about laws. What to do?????

[MelvinsArmy]

Anyone who thinks that the US media is leans anywhere near liberal needs to study the work of Joseph Goebbels and learn the definition and practice of propaganda. That would only be a start. This might be the biggest problem we have today.

[Jay Dub]

Picked up my XD 45 today. Can't wait to get to the range . Was also eyeing a Benelli pump action while I was there (for the house of course). -Jeff