Old School/Vintage Sanctioning Body?

[Eau Rouge]

Ok, in my ever increasing efforts to overcome my ADD, I have been contemplating what it would take to begin a national organization for vintage RC racing. As much as I would like to think that I'm going to get the opportunity to race anything current in the next few months, I realize that the growth in popularity with the old stuff is gaining momentum. I've seen it in other hobbies, and we're on the verge of not being able to find a beater gold tub RC10 for under 2 bills.

Who would be interested in developing a mini ROAR or at least a set of rules to get everyone on the same page with racing, before this thing really takes off and everyone is doing something different? Wouldn't it be nice to have some big events to attend where you knew that you could race, bench race and look at some really amazing displays of beautiful restorations?

My goal is to put together at least one, maybe two national events in 2007 that will gather a lot of people together to race and fawn over some of these brilliant vintage off road race cars we have. I think a long weekend somewhere next summer would be great fun to plan a vacation around, and a great way to put faces with internet names, too.

So, here's my idea...

Vintage Off Road R/C Racing or VORRCR

Classes:
RC10 Gold Tub
Tamiya 2wd
2wd open
4wd open
Stadium Truck

Classes would be divided between stock and modified.


Batteries
Must be 6-cell packs, can be any contemporary sub-C R/C cell. No LiPo batteries allowed. Originally, stock and modified used 7-cell packs, but that may pose a problem in finding odd numbers of cells. Todays motors are all designed to run on 6-cell voltage, too. Original motors could run 7-cells. Might need to figure this out more...

Motors
Stock or Modified 05 can motors of any vintage (though period-correct is always a plus), brushed motors only—no brushless systems allowed.

Tires/Wheels
Vintage wheels and tires are not necessary for racing. Any conversion to popular contemporary tire and wheel combinations are allowed. Again, original sizes, styles and appearances are always welcomed.

Bodies
Bodies only allowed for intended chassis (i.e. no Losi XXX bodies on a vintage Schumacher Cat). Bonus points for reproductions or original items. Must appear as originally intended for the era of the chassis. Decals, wing and other accessories should be period accurate.




The spirit of the concept is to get out and run the old stuff as we would have done it 15 or 20 years ago. Using contemporary technology where appropriate, if necessary. Due to the rarity and fragility of some original cars and parts, authentic reproductions are always acceptable. An original RC10 with a current tech carbon weave chassis is legal in the 2wd class, but not in the Gold Tub class. This is vintage racing, and just like real car vintage racing, it's not really about winning, but more about racing a car that was on race tracks many years ago. The more authentic to the original—the better.

[FifthScaleRacer]

sounds cool but maybe the 2wd open / tamiya 2wd / and RC10 Gold Tub classes should be combined

[scr8p]

well, i've raced for many years, though only on a local level. the "political" part of r/c racing, i never got involved with. i wouldn't be able to guess where to begin, sanctioning, sponsors, etc. maybe getting in touch with some of the r/c sanctioning bodies might be an idea. you could throw the idea at them, and see what they say. they might have some intrest. maybe getting in touch with some of the r/c companies? i really don't know.

getting ahold of a tire manufacturer to design a spec tire i think would be a cool idea. some thing a little harder than what they make today, with no inserts. like they used to be. the only problem would be all the different sizes they would need to supply. so, that might not fly. unless everyone ran 2.2 wheels.

well, i believe this should spark up some good ideas and feedback on this board alone. i think what you typed up is a good starting point to massage a little.

i know one thing, i'll be ready.

[sk7]

i wish there was something like that in canada

[scr8p]

i wish there was something like that in canada

there's really nothing like it in the US, neither. that's what apexspeed is looking to take care of.

[badhoopty]

i've never raced. hell, i aint ever even been to a rc track...

but imo there should be a full-on retro class where everything (elecs, tires, etc) has to be somewhat period correct for all the dudes who want to relive that ere as well as an unlimited class where you could run updated electronics. my opinion is based largely on my ignorance to all the older electronics and whatnot so for me running a vintage chassis with current electronics is alot easier in my mind than trying to learn about old batteries and the like.

it was never intended to have a frog or 6 gear rc10 run brushless, and for some reason i think that would be freeking cool as hell to see.

[scr8p]

i've never raced. hell, i aint ever even been to a rc track...

hoopty, you gotta get out more.

[badhoopty]

i know...

at least i'm preserving rigs for future generations to enjoy. (but they will have to pry them from my cold, dead hands)

[justinspeed79]

We are starting a vintage racing class here in Houston. We are still working out the details, but I think it's pretty much a done deal, gonna start the series in November I think. Biff is the one who really brought the idea to life, although it has been discussed many times, it is getting serious now. That is how Biff and I found this forum, we are looking for rides. Biff found you guys, and linked me here. Now there is a bunch of local guys comitted to the idea, I'm pretty sure we will have at least 10 regular vintage racers. Maybe Houston would be a good place to host an event. Roar is not used much here in Houston, most people don't like the way it is run, I think we are going to have specific rules related to the vintage class. We aren't looking to have a serious competition really, just some serious fun with some seriously cool vintage rides. But you know how it goes, racing is racing, whether it's done just for fun or not, nobody wants to lose.

[joeyskates]

I think its a great idea and would love to be involved in something like that but beware of the big dogs. I can definitely see ROAR and their "politics" taking over the idea once it starts to catch on especially when they see how viable it can be and the money they can make off it. I was never a fan of politics but you would have to somehow "protect" the organization from being swallowed up by something like ROAR. Picture how easy it would be for ROAR once they catch wind of something like this to just simply add a vintage race to their lineup.

[Eau Rouge]

Foremost in my mind is NOT to involve ROAR or any other existing sanctioning body. The group needs to stand-alone, and work within our own rules and ideas. It's the only way to keep it simple and easy to manage. My ROAR reference was to point to the base of rules as they were in the 80s and before the world went to 6-cell rules. 3.25 pound cars, 7-cell motors, etc, etc.

Second, the idea of a rules base is to keep it from becoming what dirt oval has become with no parent—a wild, outlaw class from coast to coast. Guys that race in California are using different rules and cars than the guys in Pennsylvania. It keeps ANYONE from racing somewhere else, and really restricts national racing above a regional level. The idea here is to get a baseline down so that when things DO start developing, that we're all on the same page.

As I recall, the Tamiya cars of any vintage on off road, before the mid 90s (and really even then), were NOT competitive with any race car. Frogs, Hornets, Astutes, Foxes and the like were not A-main cars. The idea with the separate class for them is to get more involvement nationally, that's all.

The gold tub RC10 class is a novelty to bring people to the event with a car. You can buy a beater on eBay for less than $100 and they will ALL perform the same. It's essentially a spec class, if you will. It might get a few off the shop shelves and onto the track, and not have guys worrying about graphite chassis and MIP diffs. My first inclination is to make that class 27-turn stock motors with 6-cells ONLY, but it's just an idea.

I think that generally, the classes are going to be a baseline, and if this gets rolling at more places than Houston, you'll probably have a 2wd and 4wd open class to compete with. My proposed class structure is essentially a framework for a National gathering/race.

I want to treat it like a gathering, too. Not necessarily like a race. Involve show queens, too. Put on an event or two on the same weekend, one on each half of the country, and get guys to bring them all out of the shop, display them on a table, race a few on the track and have a really fantastic time.

I'd also like to talk with old school companies and racers who might be interested in participating, like MIP, Daryl Lane of A&L, Bob Novak, Associated, etc. I think Cliff Lett, Gill Losi, Jr. and Jay Halsey might really get a kick out of seeing stuff they helped create, racing around a track like it was 20 years ago.

I have lots of ideas, and I've been around racing since 1983, so I don't think I'd have a tough time organizing an event. My plan is to put something together for the end of next summer, right about a year from today. The rest will be structuring classes and promoting vintage race programs across the country, to get the ball rolling.

If you notice my sig and avatar, its the base for my idea. If I can control my ADD for a few days and focus on putting more into this, I want to start to build the foundation soon. I'm going to count on all of you guys for input and assistance as we go.




doug

[joeyskates]

Doug, I'm soooooo with you there on keeping ROAR out of it and you're right, I see it more as giving a little structure to having fun with our old RC cars than all out competitive racing. The idea of a gathering and making it more of an event for people like us who would like to relive some old times and maybe introduce a new generation to it is perfect. Oh and by the way, I'm studying to be a Neuropsychologist so maybe I can help you with your ADD in one way or another. (Haha only kidding!)

[Eau Rouge]

I'm studying to be a Neuropsychologist so maybe I can help you with your ADD in one way or another. (Haha only kidding!)

Well, I'm just starting out on my endeavors in controlling and managing it. I've only been diagnosed in the last month or so, and I'm a textbook, chronic case. I had my first support group meeting tonight, but I forgot it was tonight and I missed it.

I guess it's like Mr. Magoo needing his glasses to see where he put his glasses. Hard to get organized if I am not organized enough to do that. I'm working on it... lol.

[liquorboxracing]

I like the sounds of this. What is laid out so far is a great bases to start with. This is a great idea Apex! If you don't mind, I'd like to toss an idea out here. What if instead of breaking it down in classes such as RC10 Gold Tub, it were broke down by actual date ( Year )of manufacture? Thus having cars like the Losi JRx2 and Kyosho Ultima able to run along side of the RC10's. This would also allow for classes that would accommodate the Tamiya stuff, and allow us to involve some of the more interesting old converted racers, like the Blackfoot, and Monster Beetle, and, from our sister forum, the beloved Clodbuster. You could break the classes down and have cars based within the same market category from the manufacturers paired off against one another, like the Clodbuster's racing the Kyosho USA-1's and the Blackfoot's and Monster Beetle's against the Hi-Riders and so on. Also as the events grows, what about implementing a points system as well. Base points on lap times and completed laps, and wins, yet give bonus points for the use of original equipment and period correct mods. I think that would make for an interesting points race through out the season, and you could actually hold a east verses west based on top point's leaders. What about having a Concourse type of show at the events? Instead of just displaying them lets make it a contest. An Actual mini car show where the entered cars will be judged for awards, like a real car show. A points system could also be implemented for the Concourse show as well. Again we could have a east verses west for a grand finally and an Americas most beautiful RC car award at the end of the season. ( Or something of that nature. ) Maybe all the best of show winners from the seasons events would be the ones invited for the end of season Concourse. I don't know, just a thought!

[Northy]

Great idea!

I'm hoping to star a vintage class at my local club here in the UK. It would be great if I could take it regional and National just like you hope to do!

We'll also be looking at what rules to use, but at the moment I think we'll only have one, mixxed class Not many people with cars yet.

G