Things that irritate you

[Dangeruss]

You might be able to pour in fluids... if they're compatible with the fuel and oil system of the car... The fuel and oil we use today will tear up a stone stock 70's and earlier muscle car engine without additives in both. And that's hoping the head gasket didn't shrink and dry crack from age. And, least we forget, many new ICE cars require their 12v battery be programmed to the BCM/PCM upon installation. Security systems also require resetting after battery replacement. Tools that will have been a shop/dealer level item and out of production for three decades at that point. Will there be a workaround? Sure, for both ICE and EV's. But it'll take 30 years to find out what the little spoof will look like.

Kind of like how you can buy modern batteries to power vintage R/C cars and all the electronic work-arounds to suit your needs.

I can't give the Wired article much credence though because it's comparing two different circumstances. One is an insurance funded repair and the other an owner funded repair. The insurance company won't pay for the repair because it's cheaper/easier to write the car off. But in the US (and everywhere else) the cars are repaired outside of insurance every day. Youtube has pages of videos showing Nissan Leaf's and Tesla's being repaired. Replacement batteries can be bought and installed, both new, used, and remanned, for a lot of EV's.

Fun to think about though... the "what if's" of it all.

[Halgar]

Dangerouss is right, electrics will be collector items for some individuals who like the odd, quirky, weird side of the automotive world. You know, like THIS guy! He's weird, but really has a fantastic sense of humor, and his editing skills are top notch! Go figure, he comes from the tech industry, IIRC, he built apps.

https://www.youtube.com/@agingwheels/videos

There are countless channels devoted to Tesla cars, so there is definitely a following for the gawd awful things. Another channel I like, Deboss Garage, is starting a new project, converting a 40's era Chevy to electric. IMO, he's got the right idea and attitude for the project, you'll have to go watch the vid for more details. Deboss is also teaming up with Edison Motors to help create diesel/electric hybrid conversion kits for ICE pickup trucks. IMO, hybrids are the way forward, not fully electric vehicles, but this is not the time or place for that discussion.

[GoMachV]

While we are on the subject, did you guys see Heavy D of diesel bros is trying to get Nikoli back going again? Just saw a video drop not long ago about it.

[Halgar]

I don't watch his channel.

[GoMachV]

I don't typically either. I found it interesting. He claims that a lot of what caused the downfall of Nikola was untrue. All I know is shares are only $.70 right now and previously peaked at around $100 a share so it's a good time to buy

[mAdMan]

The electric cars today were never designed to have the battery replaced like our RC cars. Could you even imagine if the battery in your RC was bonded to the chassis? Would you even buy an RC car if it was? This sounds like a toy grade RC with glued in batteries…

New tech is driven by money, not innovation.


Every single day I’m reminded more and more why the old stuff I have was built better and will last longer.

[Halgar]

The electric cars today were never designed to have the battery replaced like our RC cars. Could you even imagine if the battery in your RC was bonded to the chassis? Would you even buy an RC car if it was? This sounds like a toy grade RC with glued in batteries…

Actually, this was one of Tesla's (the car company) early ideas, instead of a nationwide network of charging stations there would be battery replacement stations. A bit more expensive, for sure, but you don't have the wait and downtime of recharge or the expense of infrastructure to build charging stations.

[mAdMan]

[*]

The electric cars today were never designed to have the battery replaced like our RC cars. Could you even imagine if the battery in your RC was bonded to the chassis? Would you even buy an RC car if it was? This sounds like a toy grade RC with glued in batteries…

Actually, this was one of Tesla's (the car company) early ideas, instead of a nationwide network of charging stations there would be battery replacement stations. A bit more expensive, for sure, but you don't have the wait and downtime of recharge or the expense of infrastructure to build charging stations.

That sounds all rainbows and glitter but the reality is there is not enough lithium to be mined to have 2 or 3 batteries for every electric car, and an electric car for every person. If there was the cost would be astronomical socially and detrimental environmentally.

You pay energy to haul around every pound. One of the most fuel efficient cars ever made was the 88 CRX HF. It could easily get 60 mpg and it did this because it didn’t have to haul around weight.

With electric cars, the battery is 1,500 to 3,000 lbs. The weight of the battery consumes itself. It’s half the car. My entire motor trans and suspension swapped escort wagon is 2500 lbs. The gas tank weighs 80 lbs full and it will go 330 miles on 11 gallons. If the tank was 22 gallons it would go about 650. The returns from added gallons are not nearly as diminished as battery powered. I can also refill it in 3 minutes.

Electric cars cannot have long range because the battery chemistry dictates weight. The returns diminish drastically with added “capacity” which in turn removes the capacity you just added due to weight. Electric big rigs will not ever work for any kind of long haul because the weight of the battery consumes too much cargo capacity. We all know about charge (C) ratings.

Battery chemistry also dictates charge times. We will never charge any size lithium battery from empty in under an hour. It’s poor technology that just doesn’t now and can never compare to the convenience and energy density of liquid petroleum products.


Man I love these conversations.

[Halgar]

Maybe we need a new thread for this off topic conversation?

BTW, I'm not a supporter of EV in any way. Between the mining of rare minerals for battery production to the fact that the national electric grid simply cannot support them, to the tech becoming obsolete before it even reaches production, yet goes into production anyway. All of it is bad news! Do I want alternatives to ICE, abso-f'ing-lutely, but dedicated EV ain't the answer.

Ooh, looky there, that rant would qualify as an irritation, guess we're back on topic!

[Dangeruss]

That sounds all rainbows and glitter but...

That's funny... I like rainbows

The electric cars today were never designed to have the battery replaced like our RC cars. Could you even imagine if the battery in your RC was bonded to the chassis? Would you even buy an RC car if it was? This sounds like a toy grade RC with glued in batteries…

Yes, I can imagine RC chassis' with batteries bonded into them. Quick and dirty is to sandwich current battery technology between the inner and outer layer of a carbon tub. Advancing the technology would be to use the carbon weave itself as the anodes/cathodes making the chassis an actual battery. Would I buy it? ...I'd consider it, yes. If it met a racers need regarding charge times/weight/etc. they'd consider it and if the mass market found the value/cost acceptable they'd consider it. Would it have downsides? Sure. Just like everything else. But if Traxxas, Losi, Associated or whoever were to make such an item a business would emerge to convert integrated chassis' to standard chassis', creating a whole new facet in the industry and way for a guy to put food on his table. Personally I thought the move from carbon and aluminum chassis' to plastic made the vehicles closer to toys.

Regarding EV's, battery technology is evolving, what we'll have in the future will be better in some ways, worse in others. People like the idea of sodium batteries right now because it lacks the ecological drawbacks of lithium, but just like the jump from lead acid to lithium came with a reduction in pack size and weight, so to will the next jump. It's taken over a century to get gas cars where they are now... capable of producing impressive amounts of power on comparatively little fuel... why would anyone expect EV's to beat them with a fraction of the development time?

You can charge an EV in under an hour from empty, now.

As patents are leased and technologies are developed energy density will increase. It might as well be 1924, with regards to the maturity of the EV market compared to a gas car. I'm sure in 1924 there were a lot of people unwilling to give up their horses and buggy whips...

Technology will improve and EV's will exceed the ability of modern day gas cars, not because it's "fair to assume", but because the government is legislating it into existence exactly the same way they did to force the automobile to surpass the horse... you didn't think that came about as a natural progression, do you?

Which, is the rub for me. I think gas motors have a lot more potential for development. To legislate them out of production is a party pooper.

Maybe we need a new thread for this off topic conversation?
...
Ooh, looky there, that rant would qualify as an irritation, guess we're back on topic!

And the world comes full circle

[mAdMan]

All the quoted charge times are for 10-80%

Every EV takes a full hour and up to 12 hours to FULLY recharge. It’s based on battery chemistry and has nothing to do with conductor cross sectional area. We have the tech to push as much power as we want into a battery. It’s the battery that can’t take it. Past 80% charging slows to balance all cells and prevent overheating.

None of them fully balance-recharge in under an hour.

Baker electric cars made travel for women safer 100 years ago. No more cranking by hand. No more run away horses. But they only worked in the city. Horses were never going to allow the long distance contact and travel like we get with cars. Horses are slow. It was inevitable. I do believe that the government backed oil of course but that had nothing to do with the innovation that drove internal combustion’s existence.

Then the electric motor was added to a gas car and Baker disappeared. The tech isn’t new. It’s extremely outdated. The battery tech still is not any better for every hour we have cut from lead acid to lithium charge times, we have also cut from out from available time in our daily routine.

Lastly if there is one thing that I can guarantee you, it’s the complete ineptitude of the government, and the inability to ever mandate innovation.

[Dangeruss]

All the quoted charge times are for 10-80% ... None of them fully balance-recharge in under an hour.

www.motortrend.com/features/fastest-charging-evs/

2023 Genesis Electrified GV70 ... Time for 5-100% charge: 37 minutes
2023 Hyundai Ioniq 6 Limited Long Range AWD ... Time for 5-100% charge: 47 minutes
2022 Kia EV6 Wind AWD ... Time for 5-100% charge: 44 minutes
2023 Hyundai Ioniq 6 SE Long Range RWD ... Time for 5-100% charge: 48 minutes

KBB top charging cars are like 15 miles per minute of charge, which isn't terrible at this point. A hot rod on a slow pump is about the same. Charging start and stop points for EV's are a thing right now but, how many people pull into a station with zero gas in the tank and fill it up until they see fuel in the filler neck.

To call electric cars outdated because the foundation for the technology isn't new means internal combustion cars are equally outdated. It's not the age of the technology but the advancements in their evolution.

I won't get into advancements as a result of government mandates because that's like turning a tennis match into a game of wack-a-mole.

[Halgar]

I just read that someone bought a new laptop and had to make an account with MacroCrap to be able to initialize their new purchase.

You know, I'm not a big fan of government intrusion, but for the love of rice crispies, there needs to be some very heavy regulation of data mining and this level of corrupt BS with every purchase one makes.

[TRX-1-3]

I just read that someone bought a new laptop and had to make an account with MacroCrap to be able to initialize their new purchase.

You know, I'm not a big fan of government intrusion, but for the love of rice crispies, there needs to be some very heavy regulation of data mining and this level of corrupt BS with every purchase one makes.

Oh yeah man, this kind of thing is infuriating. Used to be able to take a look at the product registration CARD, have a laugh, and burn it in the woodstove. They want to worm their way into every aspect of your life and filter every keystroke. All this shit is on a server farm somewhere and they will come for you for jaywalking, with a stack of your "problematic" internet history, AFTER they freeze your financials. It's gonna make being ex communicado'd like John Wick look easy. I'm gonna go eat an Almond Joy now. Yikes.

The next logical step is to make every new electronic device inoperable UNLESS it is connected to the "internet". Want to mow your lawn (wait you have a lawn? That's too much property for you, buddy. Only WE GET TO HAVE LAWNS!), better log on so they can monitor your fuel usage!

Edit: Edit of Edit. Halfway thru, I determined that what I was typing up would make me seem even more tinfoil hatted....

It is getting out of hand though. The battle over AI will be interesting. GIGO.

[mAdMan]

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old man yells at technology