Motor Collection - Old School Horsepower

[V12]

There was not just one brand. At some point I knew the size but don´t remember now. But also I´m not a slot expert. Just knew what Jim told me or what I found. But old brain is fading.

Usually slot brushes don´t have a shunt wire as it´s with R/C motors.
There were a few but not much. From what I heard the shunt wire was just clamped to the brush by the brush spring.
Checkpoint did have slot brushes with shunt wires.

BTW do you have photos of your Stage IV brushes and springs?

[dinglem]

There is a lot more history behind several of the well known RC motor builders, all originating from the 70's slot scene.

I started delving into this and ended up buying an original Mick Goddard (MG) 550 slot car, fully hand made from brass bars and plates. Super cool. Mick was big in the slot scene before moving over to R/C and his slot motor building reputation went with him. if you go into the slot car section on this very forum you can see the car chassis and one of the signed M. Goddard Mura motors complete with heatsink. If you look at the prototype flat sided MG can i have you can see how that heatsink design was carried over.

I have a few motors signed by Mick, in answer to the question above they are Mura motors. When you look for those on historic slot car forums you will find a decent supply of the correct brush hoods.

Regarding the slot motors - Team Checkpoint was one of the big names in 70's slots way back when, but Jim Greenemeyer actually bought the team name as a successful entity from founder Bill Streube what i can gather.

The trend of actually etching the builder and spec name onto the armature segments was a thing back then.... i have several highly regarded slot armatures from Thorp and Steube. I have quite recently seen an early Trinity RC armature which was similarly engraved.... very very cool indeed.

Not many folks delve this far back into the pre-RC history and the reasoning behind many of the top builders using slot brush conversions - they didn't just 'try it'.... but instead it was based upon their years of experience using slot car motors at a high level.

What is fascinating is the Steube name i mentioned above. That armature i have is quite prized in the slot car world, as the builder, Bill Steube, was the founder of Team Checkpoint, and the team was created when Gene Husting put together the "Rod & Custom" race series. If you can find a Steube or 'Big Jim' slot armature today they are worth strong money.

I can only imagine that is it no coincidence then that the MG and Checkpoint motors are the two who have the engravings of the spec somewhere on the motor as a carry over from these slot car days. This is also another reason why I hold the MG stuff in such high regard as Mick had a very strong reputation in the slot world way before his involvement in RC.

[Phin]

BTW do you have photos of your Stage IV brushes and springs?

Here ya go:

[dinglem]

I have been watching a set like that on eBay since forever.

I do have quite a few new Checkpoint Platinum brush pairs now though, to enable me to rebuild these slot brush motors i have. I am up to 5 open endbell modular slot brush motors now, plus 6 Platinum Series motors.

[V12]

Yes Team Checkpoint was founded by Bill Steube and Jim Greenemeyer was working there.
At some point Bill wanted to retire and Jim bought the name then. That´s what I heard from Jim himself.

But Bill and his son Mike later started a new company Pro Slot.
In the UK there was also a company Pro Slot, but they were not related to the US company.

I have seen several Pro Slot armatures in the last couple of years and they look very close to the old Checkpoint slot armatures.

It´s crazy but most of the early R/C pioneers actually came from slot racing.
Associated had their roots in slot racing, owned a race track and sold tires and chassis.
Bill Morrisey and John Thorp and many more.
And my personal favorite driver ever ... Arturo Carbonell, also was a high class slot racer.

[coxbros1]

Well I had to know, so I tested...we have a Revoltion "killer" 14 x 2 in our stable....it runs good but nowhere near the Brutus...the comms been cut several times it appears plus I cut it...it turns 27,500 rpm....so I changed to brand new bearings and put a Trinity/Kyosho modular end bell on it with slot brushes, set the timing where it pulled 3amps at 7.2v...it cranked 28,800 rpm...and was SMOOOOOOTH!....I immediately put the factory end bell back on and set it to 3amps....27,300rpm and it wasnt as smooth....well now u have it, these are the facts

[V12]

Regarding slot motors, I have exactly one armature.
Brandnew in tube and still in bag.
I bought it a couple years ago because I wanted to compare with R/C armature and because it´s one of my favorite motor brands ... Checkpoint.
It is one of the rare Checkpoint armatures of the Greenemeyer era, because he stopped selling slot armatures soon after he went into R/C motors.
At some point he told me he still made a few slot armatures and motors, but just for team drivers, not for sale.

The armature is a Stage IV 16T with all the mods available. And of course the red painting which was typical for early Checkpoint and the engraved symbols at the armature stack.

I have seen Thorp slot armatures as well, but didn´t buy because the Checkpoint was my favorite.
Now I regret not buying the Thorp.

[dinglem]

coxbros1, not at all surprised by your findings. Small gains make a big difference. Have you checked the magnets for centering whilst rebuilding your motors? I have performed similar like for like comparisons, all with the same result. My goal would be to turn the timing back to achieve the same revs as the normal brush endbell but with a lighter amp draw for longer run times.... then gear up!

V12. Nice slot armature. Valuable. I have access to a Checkpoint armature but am still chasing it down to go with my other signed examples. The signed MG heatsink is the true gem in my slot collection however. The Checkpoint seller has a lot of everything slot I want, including plenty of MG spares.

I like the wraps on these slot armatures, kind of a precursor to the famous Reedy wraps but way more elaborate. It comes as no surprise to me seeing MG trying experimental winds like my star wind 7.5 turn armature and the like based on the things these guys tried back then.

This thread has taken an interesting turn but is kind of on topic at the same time. There probably needs to be a separate slot thread for people to search for rather than getting lost in this monster one.

V12 you are a lot like me viewing the early modified Igarashi motors so fondly, as they are a bridge from the slot era into what became popular open endbell RC. Mabuchi started out in slots too, going on to become the largest global motor manufacturer. If you look through some of my motor posts you will see i have tried to track back through the MG timeline and buy examples of the early MG Igarashi and Mabuchi modified motors from the very early 80's.

[dinglem]

My Thorpe armature for reference.

[coxbros1]

I concur with Dinglems ideas regarding the lower amp draw and gearing....I don't have a way of centering the magnets, I don't have much money

[V12]

Dinglem

Thanks for PM. Unfortunately I´m unable to reply because my PM box is at the limit.

Regarding wraps at the armature. Yes this is true slot technology to keep the windings from being damaged at high RPMs.
Reedy was doing this at some early motors but not for a very long time. Because it´s too much work.
Big Jim is the only one who kept doing it.
If you have a real close and experienced look at his armatures, you could find a lot of tricks which were common for slot motors but hardly found at R/C motors. Beside Checkpoints.
That is the reason why Checkpoints are my No. 1
But of course I also love my Delta motors and some others

I found wraps also at some other armatures which could be Pro Slot. Yes Pro Slot RC armatures and motors. But impossible to find now.
Big Jim also was somone who welded the windings to the commutator, much better than soldering but more difficult.
I know of just one other motor builder for R/C who did that. Well that would be Randy ... but he worked for Big Jim before and learned all the secrets there.

[dinglem]

Great input there v12. Thank you

I know the comm solder/weld points always look different on MG armatures to anything else i have seen - it is one way i identify them so i will have to speak to Mick about that and see what he did. You are correct, Checkpoints do hold a lot of value to many, and with good reason. For me now the slot brush thing as a whole is really appealing.

Regarding the wraps.... one unique thing i noted about my Reedy BK Select motor is the excessive wraps (and the nature thereof) which is different to any other Reedy motor i have seen. I have early Schumacher Reedy label motors with nice wraps too. I always tried to keep the BK Select wrap details to myself so i can keep an eye out for 'fake' BK's. I have seen that the labels have been reproduced but the armature cannot be faked in my eyes.... that takes us nicely on to the other thread Phin posted up earlier about fake motors.

I am currently in contact with Umberto Milanesi, the Italian motor guru who created a storm on the European scene with his Mustang team motors... he dominated the European Championships for several years and was deemed the Italian Mike Reedy in the magazines. I am wondering what his background was? I have seen he has a lot of Mustang motors still, some Igarashi versions and slot converted endbells etc.... he also has some Sping motors which he tells me were sold under the Trinity banner and have the funky can slots and so on. I am in the throws of negotiating for one of those in fact - i am really hoping is also has a slot endbell as per the adverts.

[V12]

I never have heard about a Reedy BK motor before but I think at this time I was more interested in Trinity or HPI based motors.
And made a couple of conversions for my own needs.

Do you have pics for that special armature? And what timeframe was this?

Well I´m asking this for a reason.
First, I think Reedy gave up on using wraps on commercial available armatures at some point. Maybe different for team motors.

Second, and I might open a can of worms here. There was a single motor builder who wound special armatures for other teams as well, for making his living. Especially for Worlds, Euros or similar high class events. This guy told me at some point, but it might be not known to the public and maybe should not. At least back in the days.
And if that armature looks very neat and different to what is usual for Reedy, it´s quite possible it´s one of the armatures I mentioned.

I definitely don´t what to speak bad on Mike Reedy because I meet him a couple of times and think he was a great guy. Also I own a special Reedy made team motor. But I never have seen a Reedy armature what looks that neat wound or overall made as some other certain ones.
But that doesn´t mean a not so neat wound or made armature will be slow.

Regarding Mustang motors, this is quite difficult. Actually I meet the Italian team several times but there was always a big secret about the motors.
Actually I knew one of the Italian guys quite well, but I never was able to get such motor.
It is new to me there have been Igarashi based Mustang motors, because Igarashi cans were a lot of more work involved compared to Yokomos.
Also when the Euros started the Igarashis actually were gone.
I also never have seen a Mustang motor using slot brushes. But maybe they were made for 1/12 scale.

Regarding Sping, this is another mystery. Yes they made some very special motors and I would like to own one of theirs Modified. Same for the early Trinity slotted can motors. But I don´t believe the Trinity can actually was a Sping. Yes they look very similar made and the Sping picture unfortunately isn´t that detailed. But if you enlarge the picture, you can see the Sping and Trinity can doesn´t have the same number of slots.
BTW the Sping modular endbell looks a lot like a Checkpoint to me. I mean not similar, I think it´s a Checkpoint.

It´s very interesting you´re showing that Trinity ad by MIH (Modell Import Hamburg).
Because the owner of MIH was a Double European Champion in slot racing.
And he made a motor what looks similar to the Trinity can but goes even a step further than the Checkpoint. Because it is based on an Igarashi, uses the machined and slotted similar to the Trinity but larger slots. And came with a slot brush setup, not build into an Igarashi endbell but got a completely new endbell. The brush setup was located outside of the endbell as found with the Yokomo or other new style motors.
It is the motor I mentioned above.
I have seen exactly one sample of such motor in reality, now at my collection.
I try to find that motor in my boxes and show later.

[dinglem]

I believe you may be correct on the Trinity/Sping differences. It does look like the same can but the Sping has 6 slots whereas the Trinity version only has 5 - i had not noticed that before. The one i am looking at getting my hands on was supposedly sold as a Trinity to the owner and also has 5 slots in it.

I have one more Sping advert here. Endbell not as clear as it is too bright, but the can slots are obvious.

My own Mustang motor is a Yokomo Ultra-based version - it has a very short stack and my motor builder was extremely impressed by it. Very low inductance for the wind. The guy i sourced it from was handed it by at team driver at the European Championships in the late 80's. I have seen early Yokomo versions with a green Mustang sticker, and late HPI-based examples... all belonging to Milanesi himself in his collection. I was told these motors were only distributed to his team drivers. Whilst chatting to him he also sent me a picture of an Igarashi Mustang motor. The pics were sent to me in confidence so i cannot share on here, but needless to say i am making him an offer for whichever i can get hold of. I will ask him whether these were for 1/12th or 1/10th offroad. More than likely they were using the Bolink/Checkpoint endbell - i will ask him as i think he was involved in importing these 'Trinity' motors.

I do not wish to post up pictures of the BK Select armature as i don't want to open the pathway to fakes, but can confirm is has significant lower cotton wraps around the comm. They are much thicker and more extensive than those seen on my 86 and 87 Schumacher-Reedy examples. I have another team Reedy one-off wind and this too has wraps. The BK is an interesting story and came about after Brian Kinwald won the 2wd worlds. He immediately defected to Losi and the Reedy link was lost. Reedy attempted to market the BK Select as a motor directly matching the spec Kinwald used to win the Worlds.... but Trinity sued Reedy and the early batch of motors were pulled and never sold. Each team driver got sent one (according to the team Reedy driver who sold me his). I have only seen 2 others apart from mine.

[V12]

That´s a very nice Trinity motor. And also one of the early motors I´m searching for since years.

I think the Mustang motors I saw were in 1987 and 1988, maybe also 1986 but for that year I´m not sure.
I meet Marco de Marchi and Umberto Pernice at some point and was talking with especially Marco a lot.
I´m pretty sure I also meet Milanesi at some point when talking with Marco.
Maybe you could ask him if he had been at the Pörtschach EFRA GP in Austria. If so, we did talk.
Involved with importing Trinity, hmm.
I know Marco had a shop and they imported Novak, Associated and I think Reedy, Trinity I don´t know.

Yes that was the problem with Mustang. I had interest to try or buy a Mustang motor myself, but they told me made just for the Italian team.
I have to ask a good friend if he remember which can they used at that time but I think Yokomo.
But we heard they used a Quint wind which was quite unusual.
HPI can make pretty good sense. They were made by Sagami as the Yokomos.
I had and still have several HPI cans which I used for my own experiments.
I liked them more than the Yokomos because they had better airflow, especially at the brush area.
But there were two different cans, a standard one and another one with much thicker wall. The thick one made more power and didn´t drop power that much when running hot. I think the thick one also had better magnets but was difficult to find.

As I said I don´t know nothing on the BK Reedy but had a lot of motors based on the Trinity EX-Tech and BK cans.
I did a lot of own experiments with switching cans and tweaking with brushes and springs.
But I never liked the Trinity BK endbell because I feel there was not enough airflow.
I preferred the BK can (because of the better magnets) but used EX-Tech endbells.

Well I should sort my motors some day. And rebuild some motors which are stored in pieces since ages.
Something around 150 + motors not sorted is a bit of a chaos. Plus cans I never used.