Differentiating the optimas

[AYKBOBCAT]

Hi

I'm starting to think about buying an Kyosho Ultima or an Optima to restore and drive. I've seen a few nice ones on this site and on the Bay. They seems awefully expensive but very cool... I'm confused with all the different types of Optimas though... Can someone help or point me toward some page showing the difference? I know the mid model has the motor mounted in the center but I son't see the difference too well with the other models....

Also were the belt conversions god at all or is it better to keep the chain?

Thanks for any help...

[mrlexan]

Terrysc might be better suited to point you in the direction of pages with Kyosho information, but one of the best I have found is http://theoptimahouse.blogspot.com/, that is the only one that comes to mind.

The original Optima was a rear mounted engine 4wd, with a chain drive. It shared the chassis with the Javelin and the Salute. You could purchase an Option House Belt Drive for it..... they are quite desirable and expensive these days. As far as I know they worked quite well (an opinion of course).

The Optima Mid was the next in line with a Mid Mounted Motor and belt drive. This is what I used to race when I was a kid and absolutely loved it. This is also where my knowledge gets a bit fuzzy..... there was a Mid Custom, Mid Custom Special and few other confusing (to me) variations.

[RichieRich]

Original Optima chassis: Optima, Javelin, Turbo Optima, Salute, Optima Pro

Optima Mid CHassis: Optima Mid, Turbo Optima Mid, Turbo Optima Mid SE, Optima Mid Custom Special plus some other assorted custom special turbo super-fantastic Mids, etc.

Terry is the man when it come to identifying optimas.

[ROH73]

I'm no Optima expert, but I do have three Turbo Optimas and have restored and subsequently sold an original Optima. I really like that original rear motor design and its variations. The mid lineage was much more refined and evolutionary, but the original design just works for me.

The Optima House site is a wonderful reference, but for a quick overview of the rear engine lineage:

Optima, Javelin, Turbo Optima, Salute and Optima Pro. They were all chain drive with the same chassis, but the Turbo and Salute had beefier suspension arms, bigger gold shocks (vs the smaller red shocks on the Optima and Javelin), modified motor, full ball bearings, etc. The only difference between the Turbo and Salute is the body. The Javelin had the Kyosho pipe-frame type body and is highly sought after today. Again, the only major difference between the Optima and the Javelin is the body (the other minor difference is with the shock towers). The Pro was a pretty much a 50/50 mix of the regular Optima and the Turbo/Salute with red shocks, a different upper plate with different steering servo mounting, an aerodynamic body with undertray and no mechanical speed control included.

As mrlexan mentioned, the belt conversion is very desirable and works VERY well. The chain tended to stretch quite a bit, was noisy and robbed some power. However, there is something quite uniquely vintage about running an Optima with a chain, so only one of mine has the belt conversion.

If you decide to buy any of the Optimas, you won't be disappointed. They are a fantastic series of cars and worth the expense in my opinion. I also think they make great runners; the design is quite robust. I got my original Turbo in 1987 and got the belt conversion for it in 1988. I still run it to this day and have never broken anything.

Check out this pic from The Optima House for a pictorial history of the Optima series:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_tL3VrG8BIgo/RXfQ7vkiwlI/AAAAAAAAAA8/iKyUK4OYhZQ/s1600-h/historique+copy.jpg

Robert

[Dr. Robotnik]

The Genealogy of the Optima family is a bit complex, so a little explanation is perhaps necessary...
1. The Optima: the original chain drive 4WD buggy. Aluminium ladder type chassis. Polycarbonate body.
2. The Javelin: Optima with a flashy orange roll cage body. New shock mounts allows optional Gold shocks.
3. The Celebration Gold Optima: essentially a standard Optima with a gold anodised chassis. celebrates the 100.000th unit sold, limited edition 10.000 units.
4. Turbo Optima: reinforced Optima for 8.4V power. Le Mans 240S motor included, Option House gold shocks, under guard, full ball raced.
5. Salute: Turbo Optima with a more futuristic body, without motor. 2 versions (red and blue)
6. Optima Pro 4WD: last chain driven Optima, ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) ready, without motor. undercowled body.
7. Optima Mid: belt drive model, midship motor (previously rear overhung) to improve weight balance, duralumin chassis. Le Mans 240ST motor.
8. Turbo Optima Mid: Optima Mid with full options (stabilizers, ball bearings, 2mm duralumin bronze anodised flatpan chassis, ESC ready)
9. Turbo Optima Mid SE: Turbo Optima Mid with Option House Platinum Shocks instead of Gold Shocks.
10. Turbo Optima Mid Special: long wheelbase version of the Mid, with saddle pack battery, carbon fiber chassis, limited edition (4 units sold per shop). Undercowled body.
11. Optima Mid Custom: long wheelbase, cheaper version (black dampers, duralumin chassis). Undercowled body.
12. Optima Mid Custom Special: long wheelbase, gold shocks, duralumin chassis, undercowled body, bullet type futuristic body. Last Optima.

http://theoptimahouse.blogspot.com/search/label/MUSEUM

[AYKBOBCAT]

thanks guys

One more question.. What kind of investment I should expect for a decent shape rolling chassis? I'm not looking for a shelf queen... just something I can bash around with...

I'm thinking either Ultima or Optima
Thanks

[mikedealer]

ive gotten nice ultimas for as low as $100, but parts are a bitch to find. good thing is that kyoshoamerica still stocks a few parts as well as timetunnel, as well as towerhobbies making compatible parts for the ST15 Truck

if you put together a ultima, let me know anytime and ill be glad to share some links and resources

[Mr. ED]

If you're happy to go ultima-pro there's only a few parts you need to find the originals for: rear bulkhead, gearcase halves, outer-gear cover, topshaft, spor shaft and motorplate.
Everything else is pretty much easy to make or available in some or other form, just a pitta there's no central source.

[RichieRich]

I think base Ultima parts are pretty easy to find. The hard stuff are the more short run parts like the long arms for the Ultima Pros, 48 pitch gear sets, FRP shock towers and some chassis like the one on the Turbo Ultima.

Also, if you really want to get picky, earlier Ultimas have different rear bulkheads than the later versions. They're interchangeable like RC10 rear bulkheads, though. I've raced Ultimas more than my RC10s so let me know if you need help choosing. There's a fantastic post about the Ultimas here.

[bdrmbully]

2 fine cars either way .do you prefer 2wd to run or 4wd better is the Q?

[Mr. ED]

my 2 cents: go for 2wd.

The chain or belt running through the same case as the gears in the rear is just asking for trouble.
While it was acceptable in its high days to have to replace gears regularly, it's definitely something you rather avoid nowadays.

[SMOKE-DOG]

I too have been thinking of purchasing an old Optima. I've got a Kyosho Spyder TF2 that I am thinking about converting it into an Optima mid style buggy. It's similar to the mid suspension wise. Wonder if the mid arms will fit it?

[ROH73]

my 2 cents: go for 2wd.

The chain or belt running through the same case as the gears in the rear is just asking for trouble.
While it was acceptable in its high days to have to replace gears regularly, it's definitely something you rather avoid nowadays.

True; modern 4wd drive cars are much different and more reliable, but for some average vintage driving (not bashing; an Optima could never handle what a T-Maxx can), an Optima is very durable. My main Turbo Optima is 21 years old, with a belt drive conversion, and I run it quite regularly with a 15 turn brushed motor and 3000 mAh, 7.2v NiMH batteries. No problems, no replaced gears and no broken parts. It is a blast to drive.

In my opinion, chain drive is just as reliable, but it stretches and you just have to keep adjusting it...a little tedious.


Robert

[Mr. ED]

I too have been thinking of purchasing an old Optima. I've got a Kyosho Spyder TF2 that I am thinking about converting it into an Optima mid style buggy. It's similar to the mid suspension wise. Wonder if the mid arms will fit it?

Yes, everything is direct fit.
But even better: get the lazer arms and uprights for a more modern geometry. Same direct fit

or this kit from eagle racing for the tamiya DF03

You'll need modern U-J's with the longer drive axle, cross-pin hexes and the larger tamiya bearings too, but because of the way the arms are shaped you'll bring the short wheelbase up to more standard proportions also.

[germanrc10gt]

hi guys,

a question for those who have some long term experience with 4wd machines like the schumacher cat, yokomo buggies
or kyosho optima/lazer:

how long do those belts last? i do know it is up to many factors like dirt, motor power and storage, but generally speaking do those belts get brittle after lets say 20 years or so, no matter how often the car was driven? i'm thinking about getting a 4wd buggy, and actually i prefer things that last for ever. something like a hotshot re-release with central drive shaft. cardan shafts won't get brittle. i wouldn't like it when i buy a car that is around 15 years old by now will be unusable in 5 years since the belt is defect and i don't get a spare. thanks for your advise or opinions.

volker