Le Mans motor restorations

[TheDiamondOne]

I don't think the 240S was ever underrated. Most anybody you talk to says they're fantastic.

Awesome Homz!

[R6cowboy]

Now I'm looking for motor shims/spacers that go on the shaft on each end of the armature. Some of those shims fell out in small pieces when disassembling some of my old motors. So have some questions.

The spacer at the bottom of the can: are those always metal, and not teflon (I think those are teflon, correct)? And is only one shim always needed at this end?
The spacer/shims at the comm/endbell side: are those always teflon with one metal shim at the very end between the teflon shim and the bearing or bushing?
How many shims do we know to use on either end?
Also, where do you prefer to get them (teflon and metal ones)? I found some at Amain, but don't know if they're a decent deal or overpriced since I've never looked for these before.

I shim my motors so there's just the tiniest bit of play in the comm when installed in the can and endbell screwed down; you feel the slightest bit of play when tugging on the pinion shaft. If there's no play at all, you risk having friction, and if there's too much play, you wear things out quicker.

I buy M3 stainless washers at Lowes. They seem to work fine.

On a bushing motor, I try to put brass or teflon against the bushing itself.

Phenolic motor shims is what I was originally thinking about. Are these a thing-of-the-past nowadays? According to the world wide web, they seem to be almost non-existent. The dude I bought brushes & springs from on ebay surprised me with these "on the house" with my order (pictured below). Also found another package of these exact shims on amazon I picked up for $10.

[Coelacanth]

In my opinion, a shim is a shim. It doesn't really matter what the material is. The diameter and thickness are what matter; if it's too big or small, it'll press against the moving part of the bearing or otherwise cause friction. I guess phenolic material wouldn't be prone to rusting, but neither would aluminum, nylon or stainless steel...and none would really matter if the car isn't going to be driven wet, or sitting on a shelf.

Aren't those little orange washers you used to use when installing computer motherboards on the brass standoffs phenolic material too? I think those were used to prevent a bad ground, electrically.

[RobSan]

Changed to these ceramic bearings on the 240sb. Getn 27400rpm now and much smoother at low rpm

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I've been searching around the thread with no success: is there any shop still selling the tool to remove bearings of brushed motors? I have a 360 Gold that I'm restoring and it needs new bearings. Unfortunately most links I've found around are pointing to discontinued products...

This is the only one that kind of looks like what I need: https://fantomracing.com/shop/tools/motor-bearing-replacement-tool/

Not sure about the .375" size though, is that correct for older Le Mans motors?

While I'm at it, did you use any sort of brush alignment tool as well?

Thanks!
Rob

[Coelacanth]

I've never needed a special tool to remove those bearings. Just find a nut driver that has a head just big enough to fit inside the outer shaft holes in the can and gently tap on it until the bearing pops out. Make sure you tap evenly. For re-inserting the bearings, I tap them in with the plastic butt end of a screwdriver, making sure they go in evenly and end up flush.

[RobSan]

I've never needed a special tool to remove those bearings. Just find a nut driver that has a head just big enough to fit inside the outer shaft holes in the can and gently tap on it until the bearing pops out. Make sure you tap evenly. For re-inserting the bearings, I tap them in with the plastic butt end of a screwdriver, making sure they go in evenly and end up flush.

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried pushing it out but it didn't move at all...

Maybe I should just insist and push harder but I wanted to check before damaging it further and not being able to remove the bearing.

Maybe the fact that it's an aluminum endbell also makes it harder to extract compared to the plastic ones?

[Coelacanth]

The key is in the tapping, not pushing...same reason an impact socket breaks rusty nuts loose when a regular socket won't. I've done many Le Mans motor restos with the aluminum end-bells, never needed any special tool to remove the bearings. Just get a driver and hammer and gently tap on the nut driver. It's already set in the recess evenly so it can only come out evenly. I've never damaged a bearing, but if you did, you could buy plenty more in that size if needed...plain steel bearings are pretty cheap.

[juicedcoupe]

Best I can tell, any of the tools should work. Before finding a vintage tool, I asked Trinity about theirs and they said that it should work.

But I have had a couple bearings give me issues, even with the tool. For removal, I find it easier to tap them out instead of using the tool as a press.

[RobSan]

The key is in the tapping, not pushing...same reason an impact socket breaks rusty nuts loose when a regular socket won't. I've done many Le Mans motor restos with the aluminum end-bells, never needed any special tool to remove the bearings. Just get a driver and hammer and gently tap on the nut driver. It's already set in the recess evenly so it can only come out evenly. I've never damaged a bearing, but if you did, you could buy plenty more in that size if needed...plain steel bearings are pretty cheap.

I'll give this a try. I didn't think about the tapping but you're right.

Bearings ordered from the same shop you posted a pic from (trbrc.com). Bought a bunch of standard steel bearings and a couple of ceramic ones for the higher revving motor restorations

[nitrous36]

I prefer the look of brushed motors and the graphics on the cans. I still have a few kicking around. I just wish it was possible to make brushed motors that performed and lasted as long as brushless motors. Well maybe its possible, but how much would it cost?

[dinglem]

Great thread! I just read through every page.

I only ever had a 240S back in the day, and that was a whim purchase from when I was on a family holiday and stumbled across a small model shop on the island of Jersey (UK Channel Islands) when I was about 13 years old. I have no idea what happened to it, it remains one of the few motors i cannot located from back then. All that has shown up is the polystyrene packaging from inside the box it came in. I know i never raced it in anger though.

I recently picked this up, a 360PT in a case of motors I purchased. Sticker is an MCI repro i would say, but the condition is very very tidy indeed and it doesn't look to have had much use although I haven't stripped it or anything. Virtually zero brush wear. I don't know much about the LM range really as they weren't really my thing back in the day - reading here it sounds like it belongs on eBay though!

[R6cowboy]

Rebuilt Kyosho Le Mans 240S with new bearings, Kyosho LM7 240 springs, Trinity Speed SPEC Brush ID Shunt Dual Face brushes, and a brand new Trinity/Epic 19T single wind armature. Decal is a MCI racing repro.

"Broke in" the brushes at about 2 volts for 20 minutes, then let it cool down. Tested at 7.2 volts with 0* deg timing the motor spun 32,700 rpm, @ 3.25A. At 7.2 volts with 6* deg timing it spun 35,400 rpm, @ 3.5A.

Needless to say this thing surprised the crap at out of me. Never would've guessed it would turn that kind of rpm, 30k rpm would've been surprising. These springs are not stiff, nothing like Trinity purple 13oz springs.

240S.jpeg (62.69 KiB) Viewed 531 times

240S.jpeg (62.69 KiB) Viewed 531 times

240S_.jpeg (59.23 KiB) Viewed 531 times

240S_.jpeg (59.23 KiB) Viewed 531 times

240springs.jpeg (37.92 KiB) Viewed 531 times

240springs.jpeg (37.92 KiB) Viewed 531 times

[coxbros1]

Wow, those are impressive numbers!...F