Vintage Racing, what is original and OK upgrade?

[RCveteran]

My dream is to one day make aVonat. Is there an unwritten or written letter of the law as to what are OK mods?

Say I bolt Losi 22 arms on front of my Jrx2 as an example, is it still a JRX2?

What about tires? In the day Barcode with tire sauce did not exist.

Just curious in general what people think, where do you cross the too much modification line to not be vintage or original enough?

[scr8p]

There are really no rules when it comes to the Vonats beside a '95 cutoff, 2s lipo/6 cell NiMH/Nicad, and 17.5 or 27t stock motors. Which personally, I'm not a huge fan of it. But, it ain't my sandbox.

Long story short, you can basically run/build whatever you want. But remember, it is a vintage race. I would try to build something in the spirit of that.

[RCveteran]

What do you not like about those rules? Too strict or not strict enough. I can't help but think in the right hands a JRXT or RC10 whatever with really sticky tires and modern brushless/LIPO go like stink but clearly way faster than what we could achieve pre 95.

That and of course there are huge difference between a 1995 car and even 1988. I'm just thinking out loud, I have no real opinion per se.

How about a class with rock hard knobby tires of the time and brushed 17.5 only and all soda pop consumed must be NIP 30 year old.

[RC10th]

The motor rule is my only complaint, I'd like to see stock and mod like the old days.

[Phin]

I thought there was a rule that modern parts were only okay if they simulated parts before the cut off date or if they were used to run modern wheels? Like Dynatech arms in place of RPM Worlds arms...or B4 caster blocks to run B4 wheels.

[matt1ptkn]

That and of course there are huge difference between a 1995 car and even 1988.

^ This is what bothers me. It almost seems like it would be beneficial to separate into additional classes. Such as a class for the 80s, and a class for the early 90s? It just seems like separate classes for the guys "racing" for fun and the guys racing to win would be a good idea. Just throwing a couple more cents into the discussion.

[snowfox]

What do you not like about those rules? Too strict or not strict enough. I can't help but think in the right hands a JRXT or RC10 whatever with really sticky tires and modern brushless/LIPO go like stink but clearly way faster than what we could achieve pre 95.

That and of course there are huge difference between a 1995 car and even 1988. I'm just thinking out loud, I have no real opinion per se.

How about a class with rock hard knobby tires of the time and brushed 17.5 only and all soda pop consumed must be NIP 30 year old.

Kinda sounds like you do have an opinion?

[RCveteran]

Not so much an opinion but curiosity. I could see how it would get very complicated fast to try and cut it all up too much. And where do you cut the date off is complicated as well. Some call anything older than yesterday vintage. IE, you could call a XXX Vintage at this point but clearly it's very modern when put next to an old Gold Pan or JrX2.

[snowfox]

Yeah true, it does sound like a fun event but I could see how it could get taken to extremes.

If it were me I would try and run it as stock as possible, and just upgrades the parts that were prone to break back in the day so I could make at least 1 lap

[RCveteran]

If anyone is like me, my lap times don't change much if I am running my old X2 or my new 22T with the same motor and tires on them. I'm banging off the walls just the same. The car is hardly the limiting factor.

As an example, even something as far as a slipper clutch on a JRX2 for instance, the car didn't come with one but it's an update. Is that in the spirit, I suppose different answers. The threads I looked at seem to show an fun environment and that I would think is the most important part.

[Hcp22]

I have been racing in VONat’s twice in the Classic class with my modified Kyosho Tomahawk. All modification’s I have made is the same that was made back in the days with original parts from that time or repro. The only modern parts are the wheels, tires, Li-Po, servo, ESC and radio. And I like the idea with hand out motors to keep down the speed and make it more equal. Hand out motors also make me more competitive sins I only race twice a year with no practice or bashing in between. I don’t think the cars have to be box-stock as in Australia...

[R Cane]

I've been wondering about this myself. In another thread, Kaiser said he'd love to see a USA-1 at Vintage Nationals...and it got me thinking about mine. It's a sassy chassis, and I had no idea if that's still in the spirit of vintage or not...
Is there a webpage or PDF to get somewhere that lists what you can and can't do?

[RCveteran]

Curious if anyone flies in and how they handle getting their stuff there? Chicago to CT is a long drive but I suppose it could be done. I think I'd need to consolidate down to the basics, but you know that nagging thought, if I only bring these 3 extra parts, and well if I bring those I better have a back up of this and back up of that. Before you know it I need to commission a fed ex cargo plane.

[JK Racing]

Not that I have been able to attend yet, but I follow it every year. There is 2wd stock (full tilt all out racing) and Classics class. A short arm RC10 with orginal (or re-re) hard large knobbies goes here. A CE/Team/Worlds car goes into stock.

"In the spirit", modifications should only be to use modern wheels/tires, replica/re-re parts are perfectly fine in my eyes, period correct modifications should be good as well (covers the RPM long arm cars). Even though my personal racer uses modern Big Bore shocks, period sized/type shocks should be used.

No offense, but the couple of fantastic mid motor conversions we have available are not "in the spirit", even though one is a replica of a period correct modification. With modern tires and electronics, these conversions DO have an advantage on higher bite tracks.

IF/WHEN I ever get the chance to run, I want to run 2wd stock, Stadium truck and hopefully a Classics car.

My only complaint is 17.5 limited classes should be 'blinky' and not allow any speedo timing advance/turbo. You can dial in those items and make a 17.5 scream like a 8.5 or 7.5 motor. Not fair to the 'spirit' in my opinion. I think 2wd stock should also be limited to the 'first' chassis of the manufacturer that qualifies, IE - no B2 or XX. I hate creating more classis (dilutes the entries too much and everyone gets into the A main), but a mid-vintage could be for gen 2 cars.

But....also not my sandbox

[scr8p]

I pretty much second everything Joey laid out. My biggest gripe would be the 17.5 classes not being blinky. Now, I talked with a couple guys that race more, and are more familiar with brushless stuff than myself. At the Vonats track, those guys were running blinky or just a slight bit of timing. I guess with the track size, it's not big enough to really see the effects of a really cranked up esc/motor........ idk. I just feel like if states in the rules that you have to run a 17.5 or 27 turn stock motor, the 17.5's should not be able to be "turned up". How is that fair to someone that shows up with a 27t?

The first race back in '08 I had not graduated to brushless equipment. I was running an old Trinity Green Machine 27t handout motor from a track I raced at back in '93-'94. At no time did I feel like I was under powered. I don't know if I could say the same today. Not gonna find out either.

Doing what you gotta do to run modern wheels is not a problem. In some ways, it's a necessity. But in that process, you shouldn't be trying to push the cars track width out another 5/8" or whatever to meet today's ROAR max width. That's where the "in the spirit" comes in. Although, if you can make it happen using all vintage parts, I may be able to look past it.

The one thing I somewhat disagree with is the mid motor conversions. The NIX10M, like Joey, that would get a no from me just because of it being a new design (sorry Niki). But the Advance replica mid conversion chassis that's out now should be allowed. He hasn't really strayed from the original design (which is like 26-27 years old). If you don't allow that one, no reproduction or re-released stuff should be allowed there. Even the Tekin mid conversion. If someone shows up with one, it should be allowed. To be honest, i should be able to go up there with a mid motor graphite team car or gold tub and it be fine. I mean, the guy running the race is running an E-converted tub chassied RC10gt with buggy arms on it.

At the end of the day, you can basically do whatever you want and no one is gonna tell you no. So it doesn't matter.