2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-19TH

[surferdave71]

well for what its worth i wish i could afford to attend the event lol, it would be nice if somebody could organize an event on the west coast preferably in california too. just had to throw my 2 cents in.

[soniccj5]

Just curious, when will the videos that were taken during the race be posted?


Thanks,
ED

[tazz888]

Already started preparing my rides for next years event. I'll be making my first appearance in 2wd buggy with my Cougar 2000 and my usual running in truck with the 10T.

[airbats801]

Love the concept, but I dont get the electronics. Maybe rx and tx ok, but brushless shouldnt even be a consideration, and neither should lipo really as a lipo is gonna always pack a harder punch than a nicd or a nimh. Vintage races should be ran with at the minimum a brushed motor and vintage speedcontrol. None of this programmable crap. Anyone who can charge a lipo can cahrge any other battery. I thikn whatever the battery is, there should only be one type, be it nicd nimh or lipo. Frankly I'd like to see a nicd for the pack. You can still build good packs if you shop around, but I understand most people now days have lipo. I just thikn a vintage class should be just that. Vintage. I know people have bc112 tekin chargers laying around just waiting to be used once again.

But all that said, we need something in the northwest.

[Eau Rouge]

That's an unrealistic head-in-the-sand viewpoint, really. Sorry, it is.

I sold my brushed garbage MANY years ago—and lathes, magnet zappers, brush cutters, hood alignment tools, comm sticks, turbo drops, bearing installation tools, brushes, springs—as well as my petulant round cell infrastructure—discharge trays, balancers, equalizers, soldering jigs, etc. I was thrilled to be gone with it forever, and not ever have to worry about using inferior technology on an RC car.

Why should you be forced to use low-tech electronics when there is such superior (and cheap, and low-maintenance, and low infrastructure) technology available?

Why stop there? Why not make everyone use the same old, hard tires that were available only during the era that each car was released, too? AM radio glitches, crystals and soldering hoards of capacitors on everything was so much fun, wasn't it?

Brushed motors and round cell batteries in all forms of RC racing are extinct. Period. Forcing those on the vintage crowd for actual usage is really yesterday thinking. Vintage gatherings and racing are not about using vintage electronics—it's all about the cars.

[soniccj5]

I don't have any issues with modern electronics, or tires.

There was a driver with a box stock Frog at the last VONATS who could not get over one of the jumps. I was corner marshalling during practice and she asked why. The problem was with the stock Frog tires, they can not get any grip on today's clay track, so when trying to go up the jump it would just spin.

I think the current rules leave enough room for the vintage cars to be competitive, but still keeping it vintage.

Not too mention the overall attitude at the track, everyone is there to have fun.

Hope that made sense

Now where is the 2011 VONATS info ?

ED

[reign79]

I would have to disagree that's crazy how is racing a car with the only original thing being a aluminum chassis vintage racing? Come on I have keep my mouth shut but I have to express my feelings on this and other vintage stuff. I mean you say your going to have a vintage race and instead of changing a 2010 track to a 1990 track you leave it and make it so you run a car with maybe an original chassis and that's it! That's not vintage racing!! It's like having a "vintage" website and taking about b3's because there technology is better. How about we just change the track and that's it , and then we can run actual "vintage" cars not 2010 cars with that rc10 chassis. Your either vintage or your not.

[markt311]

I just quit vintage "racing" instead of listening to everyone bitch and moan. Everyone wants a different aspect of the old day saved. No one can agree.

Modern tracks are here to stay. Some people want old tires, some old electronics. It's all garbage, I would rather race my new stuff and have fun. Collectors are crabby people, bring them to a RACE and they get worse. No offense to anyone, but everyone looks at the whole thing with their own version of "rose colored glasses", it kills the nostalgia of the whole event.


Screw it, I'll just race my B4

[scr8p]

Love the concept, but I dont get the electronics. Maybe rx and tx ok, but brushless shouldnt even be a consideration, and neither should lipo really as a lipo is gonna always pack a harder punch than a nicd or a nimh. Vintage races should be ran with at the minimum a brushed motor and vintage speedcontrol. None of this programmable crap. Anyone who can charge a lipo can cahrge any other battery. I thikn whatever the battery is, there should only be one type, be it nicd nimh or lipo. Frankly I'd like to see a nicd for the pack. You can still build good packs if you shop around, but I understand most people now days have lipo. I just thikn a vintage class should be just that. Vintage. I know people have bc112 tekin chargers laying around just waiting to be used once again.

nowhere in the rules does it say that you can't use your old stuff.

for the record, i'm almost positive that i have been the biggest supporter of seeing an actual "vintage" class at the vintage nats. whithout re-reading these threads, i believe there's only a handful of guys that said they would run such a class. and how many of them would actually show up? maybe half? not really worth the trouble.

there's not too many guys that will waste money on 5-6 nicad packs for a race that they'd run once a year, when they can go out and buy 1 lipo and run all day. not to mention, use it at other races.

[Erich Reichert]

nowhere in the rules does it say that you can't use your old stuff.

There you go talkin about rules again

Airbats, I def hear your point and others (Scr8p's for sure). The reason I did it was more for the sake of being able to run. A few factors come to mind:

- Old tires don't work... not on clay not on dirt. The other problems with old tires is if you can find ones you'd run they're half worn and if they're new you would never want to run them. One final thought and this is more of a general one for "true vintage" is that not every one has the parts to build a true vintage car much less support one if you broke it. Believe it or not but I ABSOLUTELY support the idea of a pure vintage class or even race overall but I know it severely limits the number of people that could be part of it and even more so limits the amount of fun anyone would have.

- Electronics- having raced in the 80's and 90's on a very regular basis I will tell you that the number one decider of races was reliability and run time. Old electronics SUUUUUUUUCKED!!!! Cool for the cool factor of collecting but garbagio when it came to actually putting any sort of voltage through it. Esc's were eternally overheating and worse blowing up and locking cars wide open until something harder than a vehicles chassis would stop it at which point a fire usually happened and while that's always nice around the holidays... not so much at an indoor track If there's going to be smoke at the race I prefer it to be my stock motors, not your very expensive and rare vintage speedo.

- Batteries- If there was anything worse than the electronics it was the batteries and let's now take those cells, tack on a solid 15-20 years on them and see what they can do. Something a lot of people don't know is that one of the most important and carefully hidden factors of any racers set up BITD was their gear ratio. Why? Because packs only HAD about 4 mins of run time. If you didn't finish a heat you'd better have gone down a few teeth for the next one no matter how fast the other guys were going. I have some old batteries that were NIB and believe me... there isn't a single cell among them that would hold a .5v worth of charge today. It's just going to make for one very miserable and SLLLLLOWWWW race for everyone. Don't believe me? Go back and watch footage of the 91 Worlds on Youtube... they weren't going stock motor speeds because they were careful... that's as fast as mod cars went back then. To see a r/c car go 30 much less an offroad one, was unheard of and it was in big part due to a lack of power and having to gear down enough to make 4 mins... you may also be noticing that I'm saying 4 mins... that's what we used to race and a lot of us barely made 4.

I know it seems like I'm totally against the idea but I'm actually quite the opposite. This race originated in my head as a reason to use up all the spare parts I and other guys on this board were accumulating whenever we bought a whole car just for one part. I figured we could use build cars to trash with the rest of the parts. As the race developed into a real event in my mind I realized that it needed to be as simple as possible so that people would actually come and have fun and not just the 6 or 7 hardcore collectors that knew enough about this stuff to know what would be accurate for their cars. That's why cars are allowed to use whatever will make them go around the track to have fun and why there are very few rules. In all my years of racing the biggest killer of fun and racing has ALWAYS been rules... and it always will be.

Every year I promise I will make changes and additions according to what you guys ask for (especially those that COME to the race ) and I always will consider anything you guys think of. There's nothing I love more than creativity and any ideas you guys have please tell me... I'll even work WITH YOU to help develop them. I've asked earlier on this thread if anyone had any solutions to the tire/electronic/battery issues and no one has said anything... because as someone actually did admit... there is no answer. Some things will be different and exciting this year and I hope they will be a reason a few more people will come that wouldn't have otherwise. I can tell you that my dreams are always bigger than what happens but that is in great part because of the reality of what's doable. I hope some of you that couldn't make it last year can come this year and to see those that did come again!

[MelvinsArmy]

I would have to disagree that's crazy how is racing a car with the only original thing being a aluminum chassis vintage racing? Come on I have keep my mouth shut but I have to express my feelings on this and other vintage stuff. I mean you say your going to have a vintage race and instead of changing a 2010 track to a 1990 track you leave it and make it so you run a car with maybe an original chassis and that's it! That's not vintage racing!! It's like having a "vintage" website and taking about b3's because there technology is better. How about we just change the track and that's it , and then we can run actual "vintage" cars not 2010 cars with that rc10 chassis. Your either vintage or your not.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

If you don't like brushed motors, non-lipo batteries, or cars that are at least reasonable representations of vintage technology then maybe vintage racing isn't for you. Threaded shocks, blue anodized parts, etc don't belong on vintage race cars. Why don't we just mount Protech bodies on our B4 and call it a vintage race?

[tecnica2001]

Honestly,

This cry baby mentality is gonna be this event's death, "true vintage" should be offered as a class and not be the basis of the whole event, if this were to be marketed/promoted as a "true vintage" race, only 10 people will show up with 10 different class cars, too much complaining and not too many solutions...

I'm thinking of selling all my vintage stuff, and as Mark said, I'll just stick to my modern stuff, cause this is getting tiring....

[scr8p]

i think people seem to miss the fact that THIS IS A VINTAGE R/C FORUM. so to call people on this site cry babies because they feel that the "vintage" nats isn't vintage enough is a pretty ignorant, in my opinion.

[scr8p]

and to add to my other post.......

how many of the guys at rchr would even be members on this site had it not been for the fact that the vintage nats is held at their home track?

i personally can't think of one person besides erich that was a member here before the race was announced in the beginning of 2008. the majority didn't even join until after the first event. and i only ever take notice to them being on this forum if they're trying to sell something, or right before and right after the vintage race.

you guys seem to only care about having old cars so you can run one race at your home track every year. so don't give the guys on here crap because they want to see a "vintage" race be more "vintage".

it's not as if it's gonna happen anyway.............

[MelvinsArmy]

i think people seem to miss the fact that THIS IS A VINTAGE R/C FORUM. so to call people on this site cry babies because they feel that the "vintage" nats isn't vintage enough is a pretty ignorant, in my opinion.

Thank you Jason, you saved me from blowing up on Freddy and I don't want to do that cause I like Freddy.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I hardly think that someone who is in to vintage r/c and thinks that running a car that is basically a modern car with an old chassis at a "vintage" race is being a crybaby. Far from it. I mean of course provisions can be made to make the cars a little more reliable. Modern 2.2 tires on the "race" buggies are fine, however on the "entry level" cars they look totally ridiculous. Same goes for threaded shocks, blue aluminum, anything that came off a B4 and dare I say even a XX out on the track. Sorry, none of those are vintage. Not now, not ever.

I don't take a day off work, rent a car, pay for a hotel and use up an entire weekend when the weather is nice to take my vintage car to go race with a bunch of modern cars. It's a large reason why I didn't attend the 2010 race. The 2009 race had a vibe as almost as though we vintage guys were tagged on to a regular race day at the track.