2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-19TH

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by tecnica2001 »

As expected, this year's race brought in people that didn't know much about the vintage stuff, and that's where some of the comments were generated, but the event was so overly saturated with people who knew a lot about all the Vintage stuff, that if you weren't a fan of Vintage cars, they became fans when they left the event. We had one guy that got so into the Vintage Stuff, that he started buying everything in his path... :D , he asked questions, got his car dialed in, and made the A-main in 2wd buggy.

As Mark mentioned, the Novice class was an all girl affair, my daughter couldn't care less whether she was driving a T4 or my Bearhawk, all she knew that she had to stay in the middle of the track and slow down in the turns.... :lol: :lol:

Anthony's (aconsola) little girl, picking up trucks that were almost her size, and having a blast while doing it....priceless... :shock: :shock:

Mark W. monster trucking his way around the track.... :mrgreen:

That's what those of us that were there really took away from this race...we were swapping stories, trading parts, eating some good food, oh yeah, and there was some awesome racing as well.....

Erich,
If you stop this event, I will hunt you down.... :lol: :lol:
Life is like a box of chocolate, you never know what R/C car you're gonna get next!!!

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Erich Reichert
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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by Erich Reichert »

tecnica2001 wrote:Erich,
If you stop this event, I will hunt you down.... :lol: :lol:
Not a chance of that Freddy... we all know that. Reading all that stuff put a smile back on my face. Thanks brother.

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by MelvinsArmy »

Erich Reichert wrote:
MelvinsArmy wrote: Not one of them would have made a Clod even close to competitive against a Blackfoot. Let alone a King Cab. That's what was wrong Erich. In other words, the only real option you gave me was a silver can motor.
I don't really agree but I guess we can just agree to disagree. What were you looking for as far as a motor option? I absolutely agree about being against a Kingcab... its apples and oranges however I have seen Clods do some pretty amazing things and be very racey in my time. I guess I just missed having you there and it would've been nice to see you again man. Now would you PLEASE just bring your AE from the year before and enjoy yourself next year! :)
Either a silver can limit for the class or some kind of adjustable endbell option (ie, mild modified) would have been ideal. That or separate the Clods and other big trucks into their own class. The RC10 is long gone, pretty much all I have to race is a vintage Clod and a Sand Scorcher. The motor thing wasn't the only thing that kept me away this year, although it definitely was a factor, but I also had a lot of other things going on at the end of the summer and didn't really feel like dealing with it. Maybe next year.

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by Mark Westerfield »

Run twin 17.5 brushless in your clod....Tekin RS Pro, unsensored, same phase motor wire on the center "b" lug with opposing "a" and "c" phases.

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by Eau Rouge »

Against my better judgment, I'll offer an outsider's opinion here.

It looks from the bleachers like a lot of people are expecting warm and fuzzy Time Tunnel vintage gatherings, and others are looking for hardcore racing with old cars with new technology. You can't have it both ways, but you can have both at the same event. You have to pick which direction you take it.

I have talked with Erich long before these races about the concept for the Vintage Nationals, and he has always tried to make it inviting for anyone and everyone who wanted to attend. This isn't the ROAR Nationals, and maybe calling it the "Nationals" gives some people the wrong idea about this whole concept. It is a Treffen of vintage R/C and shouldn't be thought of as a highly competitive race. He gave you a LOT more class options that I would have ever done. It has been proven over the last 3 decades of R/C that the more choice a racer has, the worse the turnout for each class will be. Offer one class—like the Vintage Trans Am Nationals—and you can see over 100 cars in a single class. And it was more competitive and fun than you could possibly imagine.

I am of the very firm belief that offering LESS, not more, is the way to work something like this event. I would like to see one motor rule across the board—like 17.5 brushless (no timing advance) or 27t brushed—and 6-round cell or 2S LiPo packs. Then, structure a few classes around that—2wd, 4wd, stadium truck, monster truck and plastic historic. Give everyone a target and let them hit it easily, and be done with it. Offering too many classes only dilutes the big picture and it isn't necessary.

IMO, monster trucks on off road tracks was rarely done, and bending over backwards for people who want to race monster trucks is kind of silly. Pick a class, bring your old school stuff and have fun. Or don't. Complaining about the motor options or the other cars in your class is goofy. It's a VINTAGE GATHERING and supposed to be fun. Sorry, it's just bizarre to me to get all worked up over toy monster trucks.

Maybe we will be able to pull one of these off in the Midwest and West coasts next year, and use a global concept for the event. Maybe even all on the same weekend. I know of a really nice outdoor track in Joliet that would be a good place to hold one in the center of the country. :)




Erich, I have run major events like this before with R/C cars and real cars, and the second guessing after it's over is normal. Your reaction to it is normal and expected, as well. It's easier to criticize and complain than it is to contribute. That's how this country works—haven't you watched the news? :wink: Keep up the good work, everyone appreciates the event.

Sorry for the long rant, I'll go back to reading. :)

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by 8rad »

I am of the very firm belief that offering LESS, not more, is the way to work something like this event. I would like to see one motor rule across the board—like 17.5 brushless (no timing advance) or 27t brushed—and 6-round cell or 2S LiPo packs. Then, structure a few classes around that—2wd, 4wd, stadium truck, monster truck and plastic historic. Give everyone a target and let them hit it easily, and be done with it. Offering too many classes only dilutes the big picture and it isn't necessary.
X2

I am of the firm belief that King Cab and Hilux should be in stadium truck anyway. Thats what they are. Just because they are Tamiya and not quite competitive against JRX-T and RC10T does not mean they should get bumped to monster truck. Not really fair to all the other trucks.

Still, looks like a great event. I will be there next year for sure.
"It's not broken, it's British!"

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by MelvinsArmy »

Eau Rouge wrote:Against my better judgment, I'll offer an outsider's opinion here.

It looks from the bleachers like a lot of people are expecting warm and fuzzy Time Tunnel vintage gatherings, and others are looking for hardcore racing with old cars with new technology. You can't have it both ways, but you can have both at the same event. You have to pick which direction you take it.

I have talked with Erich long before these races about the concept for the Vintage Nationals, and he has always tried to make it inviting for anyone and everyone who wanted to attend. This isn't the ROAR Nationals, and maybe calling it the "Nationals" gives some people the wrong idea about this whole concept. It is a Treffen of vintage R/C and shouldn't be thought of as a highly competitive race. He gave you a LOT more class options that I would have ever done. It has been proven over the last 3 decades of R/C that the more choice a racer has, the worse the turnout for each class will be. Offer one class—like the Vintage Trans Am Nationals—and you can see over 100 cars in a single class. And it was more competitive and fun than you could possibly imagine.

I am of the very firm belief that offering LESS, not more, is the way to work something like this event. I would like to see one motor rule across the board—like 17.5 brushless (no timing advance) or 27t brushed—and 6-round cell or 2S LiPo packs. Then, structure a few classes around that—2wd, 4wd, stadium truck, monster truck and plastic historic. Give everyone a target and let them hit it easily, and be done with it. Offering too many classes only dilutes the big picture and it isn't necessary.

IMO, monster trucks on off road tracks was rarely done, and bending over backwards for people who want to race monster trucks is kind of silly. Pick a class, bring your old school stuff and have fun. Or don't. Complaining about the motor options or the other cars in your class is goofy. It's a VINTAGE GATHERING and supposed to be fun. Sorry, it's just bizarre to me to get all worked up over toy monster trucks.

Maybe we will be able to pull one of these off in the Midwest and West coasts next year, and use a global concept for the event. Maybe even all on the same weekend. I know of a really nice outdoor track in Joliet that would be a good place to hold one in the center of the country. :)




Erich, I have run major events like this before with R/C cars and real cars, and the second guessing after it's over is normal. Your reaction to it is normal and expected, as well. It's easier to criticize and complain than it is to contribute. That's how this country works—haven't you watched the news? :wink: Keep up the good work, everyone appreciates the event.

Sorry for the long rant, I'll go back to reading. :)
For someone who's never even come to the event, you certainly have a lot of answers. Since quite a bit of it was about monster trucks, I feel compelled to reply. :wink:

Where to start. You can discount the Monster Truck class all you want, but believe it or not, some of us like to run the big trucks. Why even offer the class if there are no provisions to make it practical? Bring your funny car, but you can only put a 4 cylinder in it? As for people complaining after the fact, that isn't true, I brought the dual motor/reverse rotation question up within a couple weeks of the 2009 race. Nothing changed. Your idea for a motor rule across all classes happened the first two years.

Trust me, I go to have a good time. I could care less about placing. Didn't bitd, don't now. Having said that, having a truck that because of motor rules travels at half the speed of the rest of the field doesn't sound like much fun to me. I'm not worked up about this, I'm just not racing. It really is as simple as that.

No sour grapes on my part, I'm just not about to go through the trouble (as stated above) to drive my truck around the track with a govenor on it while smaller (and faster to begin with) trucks are allowed to use faster motors. Or (brought up after the fact) to spend $400 on a brushless setup that I'll use once a year. Sorry to continue with this complaint, I think I've made my point so I'll stop now, unless you want to continue.

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by Brandon G »

The good:
Thanks to Mark, John, Will, and last but not least Erich for organizing this event and putting up with all of us vintage fanatics and allowing the use of the track for the weekend! Once again, it was the most fun I've had at a race all year. No hiccups, the track direction was run smoothly and professionally. Track maintenence as well as venue maintenence (taking out the trash and keeping the bathroom clean) was the best I have seen. (the usual for RCHR) I'll be back next year!

To those I raced against, the sportsmanship at this event is unlike any other. We all know that this IS a race as well as a gathering. It allows for a very enjoyable weekend.

The trophies were well done and very unique. Thanks John!

The bad:
I personally didn't hear any negative remarks about the handout prizes. I think everyone who bought an entry walked away with a freebie they could be proud of. With the belt on the "manufacturers giveaways" tightening in this economy, I am surprized we got much to hand out at all. I tribute this to Erich and his ability and willingness to go after the goodies.

Just My opinion:
I agree with Eau Rouge that making up more classes just thins out the herd, but with the interest in monster trucks at this venue, I think it would only be fair to offer them up their own class. If not enough show, slide them back into Heavy Metal. Sure they were not regularly raced BITD, but there are a lot of guys out there that love the big suckers. Honestly, how many Hornets or Grasshoppers did you see on the track back then? If we had just a MT class, I might be inclined to build a clod for next year....

I think that if there is a monster truck class, RC10 or Ultima truck conversions should be allowed in Heavy Metal. Only stipulation would be to use the OE skinny front a-arms and for the RC10's, use the 6 gear trannies. And then set a minimum height requirement.

I think the modified 2wd class needs go away and offer up just a 17.5/27t class. No timing advance if possible. These cars are going just as fast without all the added HP.

I think the 4wd class should be allowed 13.5 with or without timing advance.

I think the classic 4wd's in the classic class was a good spot for them to be in. If a Scorpion can take TQ, then I would not sweat a plastic tub 4wd in the same class. The handout motor was a nice touch too.


To those who could not make it financially or by choice, your presence was missed, and you also missed out on a very good vintage R/C weekend.

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by soniccj5 »

I am a huge fan of the door prizes that are given away each year( I might be biased). Given the type of event, I thought the Sand Scorcher

and Hornet were great vintage kits and the SC10 would be great to get someone into short course racing.


Before I found rc10talk.com and saw the what's old is new RC-10s, I was just building shelf queens(mostly Tamiya). Then I heard about a

race where they ran cars that I used to race, I decided I was going to enter the following year. I read as many build up threads as I could

and started my own what's old is new RC-10.


This was my second year competing in the 2wd buggy, last year I finished 10th in the c-main, this year I finished last in the b-main. My car

broke in both my qualifiers. I hit the pipe hard and my steering linkage blew apart. Then my second qualifier my idler gear blew in my RPM

stealth. I was off to a good start in the main, but got hung up and it was all downhill from there. Even though I was dead last, I still

enjoyed myself.



The point to my story is without rc10talk and the VONATs I would not be back into racing.


Thanks again Erich, and everyone at RCHR for organizing such a great event! Looking forward to next year.

ED

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by kaiser »

^ well said. i'm in the same boat as you (i didn't even race this weekend, but i raced last wdnesday and i was there friday evening).
i'm a terrible driver, i'm in it for the fun both with vintage and modern rc's. with time i'll get better.
i owe my renewed intrest in racing to rc10talk 100%. i owe my renewed intrest in vintage rc to rc10talk and tamiya club.

rchr is a great place run by very cool guys and they really go all out for this event. whenever they set the date for next years vonats i'll be sure to let the wife know months in advance.

after meeting alot of the vonats racers i am suprised that some people made derrogitory (sp? lol) comments about the prizes or the ownership.

i know two things are for sure, i'll be spending many wednesday evenings @ rchr and i'll race at the next vonats. :mrgreen:

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by tecnica2001 »

Brandon G wrote:The good:
Thanks to Mark, John, Will, and last but not least Erich for organizing this event and putting up with all of us vintage fanatics and allowing the use of the track for the weekend! Once again, it was the most fun I've had at a race all year. No hiccups, the track direction was run smoothly and professionally. Track maintenence as well as venue maintenence (taking out the trash and keeping the bathroom clean) was the best I have seen. (the usual for RCHR) I'll be back next year!

To those I raced against, the sportsmanship at this event is unlike any other. We all know that this IS a race as well as a gathering. It allows for a very enjoyable weekend.

The trophies were well done and very unique. Thanks John!

The bad:
I personally didn't hear any negative remarks about the handout prizes. I think everyone who bought an entry walked away with a freebie they could be proud of. With the belt on the "manufacturers giveaways" tightening in this economy, I am surprized we got much to hand out at all. I tribute this to Erich and his ability and willingness to go after the goodies.

Just My opinion:
I agree with Eau Rouge that making up more classes just thins out the herd, but with the interest in monster trucks at this venue, I think it would only be fair to offer them up their own class. If not enough show, slide them back into Heavy Metal. Sure they were not regularly raced BITD, but there are a lot of guys out there that love the big suckers. Honestly, how many Hornets or Grasshoppers did you see on the track back then? If we had just a MT class, I might be inclined to build a clod for next year....

I think that if there is a monster truck class, RC10 or Ultima truck conversions should be allowed in Heavy Metal. Only stipulation would be to use the OE skinny front a-arms and for the RC10's, use the 6 gear trannies. And then set a minimum height requirement.

I think the modified 2wd class needs go away and offer up just a 17.5/27t class. No timing advance if possible. These cars are going just as fast without all the added HP.

I think the 4wd class should be allowed 13.5 with or without timing advance.

I think the classic 4wd's in the classic class was a good spot for them to be in. If a Scorpion can take TQ, then I would not sweat a plastic tub 4wd in the same class. The handout motor was a nice touch too.


To those who could not make it financially or by choice, your presence was missed, and you also missed out on a very good vintage R/C weekend.
Totally agree Brandon, awesome post, I'd say, a Clod class would be awesome to watch... :mrgreen:

If you come back with truck next year, I'll be hunting for you again buddy.... :wink:
Life is like a box of chocolate, you never know what R/C car you're gonna get next!!!

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by Charlie don't surf »

Eau Rouge wrote:
It is a Treffen of vintage R/C
Look, I consider myself a cunning linguist and enjoy a few dangling participles as much as anyone, but c'mon- Treffen? even spell check has trouble with that one- :roll:

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by aeiou »

Charlie don't surf wrote:
Eau Rouge wrote:
It is a Treffen of vintage R/C
Look, I consider myself a cunning linguist and enjoy a few dangling participles as much as anyone, but c'mon- Treffen? even spell check has trouble with that one- :roll:
It's those cute fuzzy little critters on that old Star Trek episode.
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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by aconsola »

Charlie don't surf wrote:
Eau Rouge wrote:
It is a Treffen of vintage R/C
Look, I consider myself a cunning linguist and enjoy a few dangling participles as much as anyone, but c'mon- Treffen? even spell check has trouble with that one- :roll:
it's a VW thing, you BMW boys wouldn't understand :lol:

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Re: 2010 VINTAGE OFFROAD NATIONALS OFFICIAL THREAD• SEPT 16-

Post by kaiser »

aconsola wrote:
Charlie don't surf wrote:
Eau Rouge wrote:
It is a Treffen of vintage R/C
Look, I consider myself a cunning linguist and enjoy a few dangling participles as much as anyone, but c'mon- Treffen? even spell check has trouble with that one- :roll:
it's a VW thing, you BMW boys wouldn't understand :lol:
<-- vw fanboy, i got it. lol

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