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Very nice - all it needs now is new turnbuckles, you know they're still available, right?

Paul

Coelacanth wrote: What's going on with that steering bellcrank setup? Looks like a lot of over-complexification in the design, especially the parts coming off the servo and that weird multi-holed part. I've never owned a Traxxas TRX-10 nor any other Traxxas, but that setup looks over-engineered.

I know I already commented on this but I have to derail for just a quick second. I am having a hard time with this comment, it gets to the root of "old" Traxxas vs "new" Trashus. Bitd they tried stuff, things like this bellcrank were design ideas taken from the way Associated "over engineered" the RC10. The design allowed flexibility, for example the rc10 bellcrank was over engineered as well- it too could be clocked in 3 different positions to allow for futureproofing. What your basically saying is, why didn't they oversimplify it and mold it in one piece? Why didn't Associated make theirs one piece? They broke all the time and Associated stuck with them. They were sloppy (Traxxas wasn't) and had a ton of flex (again, Traxxas didn't) and yet you question why they made a better part than the best racer of the day?

If you want to pick on something, the diff out drives have always sucked! Lol

Ok, sorry but I had to get that off my chest.

I'm sorry man, but I don't really see the benefits in future-proofing. It doesn't get much better or simpler than an A & L bellcrank setup, which has half the moving parts and therefore points-of-failure, to get the exact same job done. My opinions have nothing to do with Traxxas-versus-anything. I don't own Traxxas *or* Associated; I based my observation purely on physics, design & logic. What turns me on is a design--steering, suspension, transmission, or whatever--that is elegant in its simplicity. If you can get the job done with half the moving parts and have the car perform great, you've reduced points-of-failure, weight, adjustment complexity and wrenching time all in one shot.

Lonestar wrote:Very nice - all it needs now is new turnbuckles, you know they're still available, right?

Paul

Is that something you would recommend?

the bellcrank system has the exact same number of parts as an A&L or associated/rps/houge steering system, and for that matter, probably 90% of any other cars that have a rack/bellcrank system once the adjustment is set.

the way it was assembled wasn't correct with double nuts, etc. the only problem with it really was that the pivot was not able to be ball raced, because it uses a simple tube around the stud to rotate around. the servo lever has multiple locations so you can set up the car as desired, cross throw like associated, or in-line, which can improve the linear motion. Once the servo arm is set to a position and the screw is tightened down, it's effectively one piece.


great job on the restoration. I have some hawk/radicator parts that I have been thinking of converting to a bullet if I can find the chassis cheap enough. My bullet is a hybrid trx10/losi jr car now after I exploded the trans many many years ago.

J.M. wrote:What a sweet rebuild, I commend you on taking on this project. I always liked the look of the TRX10 Bullet. I watch with interest.
Cheers-Jason

jwscab wrote: great job on the restoration. I have some hawk/radicator parts that I have been thinking of converting to a bullet if I can find the chassis cheap enough. My bullet is a hybrid trx10/losi jr car now after I exploded the trans many many years ago.

Thanks a lot guys! It was fun. I kept it fully stock. Got to drive it on the carpet some this evening, too. If I ever get a new body (or rip open my new-in-shrink-wraped-box Bullet), I'll add the pics.

Just a heads up on the TBG body if you go that way- it fits "ok" and doesn't have the weak spots as bad as stock but watch the drill holes, the cage wont line up quite right

jwscab wrote:Once the servo arm is set to a position and the screw is tightened down, it's effectively one piece.

So it's basically, effectively one piece made out of several pieces.

Honestly, I like the TRX-10, even as derivative as it was from the RC10. I just don't like that steering setup and I won't be convinced otherwise. All a bellcrank functionally needs, not including pivot posts/bearings and a servo saver on the servo is a servo rod & ball-joint, 2 parts to make the bellcrank (T- or L-shaped piece and straight piece) and a center-link. Position the servo in such a way that the throw works well in conjunction with the L-shaped piece--whether mounted inboard or outboard depending on the application--and call it done.

Yes two pieces effectively one. Very flexible system and quite unique. You sure seem angry at those little pieces.

jwscab wrote:Yes two pieces effectively one. Very flexible system and quite unique. You sure seem angry at those little pieces.

Angry? Hardly. I just don't like over-engineering. I couldn't care less one way or the other about Traxxas. For that matter, the Optima's steering setup is a kludge, too. What I decided to install in OptiMutt is the cat's ass as far as steering goes. $30 bucks, aluminum, ball-raced, zero slop, smooth. Here's another ball-raced unit I assembled from parts received as a gift from Marlo about a month ago. Add a Tamiya high-torque servo saver and the usual servo rod & tie-rods and it's all you really need, provided you mount your servo logically.

I don't understand what you're talking about Marc... that steering setup is just about as simple as any of the other ones shown in this thread. The fact that one of the bellcranks is made of two parts doesn't make a difference other than maybe this is due to half of it being reused in another car. Having said that, the two architectures where the steering links are hooked to a bellcrank vs. hook to a link bar provide very different Ackermann geometries, and (at least nowadays) picking one vs. the other is done on purpose.

The resemblance between the Bullet and the RC10 are not that obvious if you forget about the colors... Now, obviously, Traxxxas capitalised on AE's commercial success to pick its car's colors, but that's about it. I own both (do you?) and they are mechanically very different. And for the price and once you fix the rear outdrive issue, the Bullet was one heck of a little car!

The thing I know for sure is you're always happy to plug your builds in other people's threads

Paul

So showing a picture of a mystery alloy bellcrank with a design I like to support a point I'm trying to make about a steering assembly is "plugging my builds"? Mmmkay.

In fact, if you look at every picture I've posted to "plug my builds", EVERY single one, you'll no doubt see that my reason for posting it was to help someone; usually to share an upgrade idea or solution to a problem.

I like to share knowledge that I've learned, not hoard it.

Coelacanth wrote:So showing a picture of a mystery alloy bellcrank with a design I like to support a point I'm trying to make about a steering assembly is "plugging my builds"? Mmmkay.

In fact, if you look at every picture I've posted to "plug my builds", EVERY single one, you'll no doubt see that my reason for posting it was to help someone; usually to share an upgrade idea or solution to a problem.

I like to share knowledge that I've learned, not hoard it.

no, but mentionning that you've done this in barney this and in optimatt that. It's irrelevant.

Lifeisanalog is showing a fine bullet that he's cleaned and restored and you're just ruining it saying "hey look other cars are done differently". He isnt gonna run it so who cares whether the steering is (supposedly) suboptimal.

you're not sharing any knowledge here that you could supposedly hoard. you're not helping either, as, again, the purpose is to leave the car stock, not transforming it. That rack might not be up to your standards, but that's the bullet rack, and this is it. Note it's the same as the TRX1 which was good enough to make the A-main and the 91 worlds and win quite a few races too.... must not be that bad in the end

Paul

PS: won't engage in this conversation any more after that...

Coelacanth wrote:Very nice restoration job. Looks great all cleaned up.

Thanks a lot. Now if only I could keep my 1/1 scale car as clean

On to the next project.

Coelacanth wrote:

jwscab wrote:Yes two pieces effectively one. Very flexible system and quite unique. You sure seem angry at those little pieces.

Angry? Hardly. I just don't like over-engineering. I couldn't care less one way or the other about Traxxas. For that matter, the Optima's steering setup is a kludge, too. What I decided to install in OptiMutt is the cat's ass as far as steering goes. $30 bucks, aluminum, ball-raced, zero slop, smooth. Here's another ball-raced unit I assembled from parts received as a gift from Marlo about a month ago. Add a Tamiya high-torque servo saver and the usual servo rod & tie-rods and it's all you really need, provided you mount your servo logically.

GoldBellcrank.JPG

Meh still not an the best design. It can be best with the servo sitting much closer.

This IMO is the best steering setup made. Adjustable servo saver and ball bearing supports everything(8total)