RC10Talk - The Net's Largest Vintage R/C Community

Does your runner have inline or trailing axles?

The effects are the same either way, but inline on mine- the B4 uses trailing type because of straight arms

You can get inline axles for the B4 which change the overall aggresiveness of the buggy, I dont think they did trailing axles for any offroad car aside from the early RC10's.

Same principle as it changes the dynamics of the steering.

If you're playing on the street in front of your house you won't notice the weirdness. If you race it with wide axles and B4 wheels AND you are in tune with your car, you will hate it. Been there, tested it and hated it. Just sharing my own experience but I look forward to hearing how others like it.

Real track testing gives the answer.

But to Reggie's explanation I have to disagree. It is absolutely about offset. If that said 6" axle had a 6" wheel with no offset it would have the same effect of a 1" wide wheel with a 3" offset. The center of the wheel still rotates about the same axis. Where you put the contact patch determines the amount of scrub, ie the offset.

If the b4 wheel has zero offset but is wider that's why the gt axles work poorly.

Well, if the "jacking" due to the extended axles is an issue, what front wheels are you guys using with the stock CE suspension geometry? I remembered somewhere reading that the Phoenix rims that were thought to be B3 clones actually had offset more like a B4. (or was it just that they weren't dished as much?)

IMO the wide axles are fine as long as you use RC10 in-line steering blocks. The arc you guys speak of comes with trailing axles as well, and the added arc of the wider axle ends up being a bit much I think. And if you are using B4 blocks, they have a slightly wider lever which (intended for the kick-up-angled bellcranks of the B4) which is affecting the ackerman too.

To duplicate JHarris' "wierdness" you'll need to do more than be in tune with your car. You'll need to run similar steering and caster blocks, have a similar tire tread (ribbed versus patterned), have a similar tire width and insert firmness, have the camber set the same, drive like him...everything else that will effect the contact patch or "where the rubber meets the road", so good luck with that.

Feel free to pm me if you have gt axles you don't want. I'll take em off your hands for a forever stamp.

2+2+1=5
1+3+1=5
2+1+2=5
4+2-1=5

no matter if the with is the same or a little big or short is no difference. if you can tell or feel the difeference well you are AMAZING. I bit you spend more time on the bench than running and if you like to run more than deal with finding wheel for your car b4 wheel do a nice jobs

protsi wrote:2+2+1=5
1+3+1=5
2+1+2=5
4+2-1=5

no matter if the with is the same or a little big or short is no difference. if you can tell or feel the difeference well you are AMAZING. I bit you spend more time on the bench than running and if you like to run more than deal with finding wheel for your car b4 wheel do a nice jobs

Welcome to the board. If you are inferring that it is me that spends more time on the bench than the track, you are wrong. Perhaps you should spend a little time here and get to know the members before making ASSumptions. I need not publish my resume, especially for you, but I think it's well known by the other members here that I actually do race regularly, as I have done since 1984.

The comments about my observations when running the wide GT axles come from actually running them. When I noticed the ill handling I actually sat down with Jason Ruona and talked to him for an extended period looking for a reason why. He gave me a very long and detailed explanation that I simplified in my response. I feel confident that someone who designs wheels and understands offset as he does would be competent and correct in his assessment of the situation.

Now, what I posted was my personal opinion based on actual testing. From what I've seen so far there has been plenty of discussion with NO actual testing. That includes you too (protsi). As I said before; I look forward to hearing how everyone else's testing goes. Not theory, opinion or anything else, but actual testing.

Maybe that was me? No need to take that flame for me Mr. Harris. I really do like my wide axles, in line 6221 blocks, 30 degree 7922 blocks turned backwards with a long camber link hole, and B4 wheels with AKA Rebar super softs with well packed/firm foam, because they work with my still basic but steadily improving driving of my otherwise 29 year old car on med to high bite clay at SDRC, AND they are red, so they look good on my workbench, where my wife would agree with you that I spend WAY too much time

Brian, you're running short arms, correct?

Charlie don't surf wrote:Brian, you're running short arms, correct?

Yeah, that too.

That's what I thought (I still want to try that).

If guys don't notice a performance difference with the B4 front wheels and the GT axels, that's cool. I personally noticed a much more aggressive turn-in but a very dull car from the center of the corner out. Some guys don't understand that concept, which is also cool...not everyone is as nerdy as me but I've attributed it to the change in ride height increasing on the steer side (because of the increased axel length) and the decrease on ride height on the outside for the same reason. But again...I may just be too detail oriented.

If your happy with your car, cool! Run it and have fun! (Yours is my favorite runner here)

Charlie don't surf wrote:That's what I thought (I still want to try that).

If guys don't notice a performance difference with the B4 front wheels and the GT axels, that's cool. I personally noticed a much more aggressive turn-in but a very dull car from the center of the corner out. Some guys don't understand that concept, which is also cool...not everyone is as nerdy as me but I've attributed it to the change in ride height increasing on the steer side (because of the increased axel length) and the decrease on ride height on the outside for the same reason. But again...I may just be too detail oriented.

If your happy with your car, cool! Run it and have fun! (Yours is my favorite runner here)

I'll buy that! I've noticed I tend to like to break the rear free and slide it around more than most so maybe that's why they work for me. Good points.

I think with the short arms though...the "downside" to the longer axel is overshadowed by the additional width and stability of them.

What ever happened with the other car you built?