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shodog wrote:I have a had time believing that a front wheel drive car had such an advantage. I remember when my friend bought a front wheel drive Nichimo. It was the laughing stock of the shop. the minute you hit the throttle, the front wheels would just spin without grabbing much traction

The Nichimos wheels might spin but it will be going forward. Try the same trick with a rwd with no slipper on a low grip surface such as the dusty hard tracks the world champs was run on with the hard tyres we had at the time. At the 87 worlds the tyre of choice was the Option House square block, if you weren't running those on the rear the cars just couldn't get round the track at all. In those conditions with hot motors in them the Nichimo will always beat an RC10 down the straight as it will pull itself down the track, the rwd will have to be fought with to get it to run in a straight line and you will never be able to just open the throttle, never mind trying to stop it spinning out when coming out of the corners.

The rule was brought in to stop the situation where everyone would need a rwd for when the grip was high and a fwd for when the grip was low. At the 87 worlds the German team turned up with a couple of scratch built fwds based on Schumacher bits, they were seriously quick on the track and a serious threat to the top teams because they were so much easier to drive.

Those are magnificent info Terry Sc!Does anybody have any more photos of FWD cars that raced back then?Try as I might I could only find info on the Poprod besides the photo I have already posted.I guess it would be ok if you were allowed to race the free practice with whichever car you might want (FWD or RWD) and settle down to one choice which would get labeled and could not get changed for the qualifiers and finals...Terry sc or any other enthusiast: we are really interested in those so any further info ,photos etc would be greatly appreciated.

This is a picture of the German custom built front wheel drive cars. Suspension parts are from the Schumacher CAT.

Thank you very much Terry Sc.So it seems that the rear suspension is essentially a CAT front Suspension complete with the Bulkheads.Is the motor ahead of the front axles and protected by the funky folded sheet type bumper?Can't seem to figure out what's up with the steering & the transmission.Any more photos of this, other protos & 1987 Worlds Coverage would be greatly received. .Thanks once again for taking the time to upload this.

The original CATs used the same suspension at each end, so the front and rear arms are the same. Soon changed to a more common porper wishbone on the rear.

Not much more information at hand. looking at the magazine picture it is a little clearer, the motor is under that bumper so in front of the axle with the steering servo behind the batteries, steering link can be seen above the batteries on the right side.

Got loads more info on the worlds, just not to hand at the moment.

You are right about the rear suspension Terry sc.Unfortunately I have only seen an original CAT in the Tamiya Club and not in person .How is the transmission accomplished?Does it have a belt? I can see the link you are talking about though it seems to be leading to the bellcranks which in turn hang below the top deck in a similar fashion to the original CAT.Is the servo upright?Great photo and info anyway.Would be great to read the editorial which must be describing vividly the controversy those cars caused ,as well as seeing more info on the 1987 Worlds whenever you feel like sharing with us

I am quite sure that I have some Info of the mid-90's "Petermann" FWD buggy laying around somewhere. I try to sort that out. The CAT you showed could be an "early Petermann" I guess ...

Seb

Go for it Seb! Give us our drug...errrr info on the car

Team Best Performance wrote:Would be great to read the editorial which must be describing vividly the controversy those cars caused ,as well as seeing more info on the 1987 Worlds whenever you feel like sharing with us

I can scan the worlds reports and upload them, I have all the old worlds reports from the UK magazines and most of the US and Australian magazine reports as well.

The text below the photograph is actually all there is about the front wheel drive cars, the only other reference in the magazines editorial was to confirm that it was discussed after the race and agreed to ban front wheel drive cars.

Just like active traction control (LRP developed a working system) front wheel drive was banned before it actually became controversial as there was only two scratchbuilt cars that weren't a threat to the big teams but were a lot easier to drive. Highly likely they were Petermanns, it bears a design resemblance to the later 4wd Petermann cars, although the make isn't actually mentioned in the article.

Hi guys

Just tried out or new scanner. Here is a pic I found in a German RC Car magazine. It shows the 1992 Petermann 2WD with optional 4WS(teering). Unfortunately that's the only pic I have from this car.

Cheers

Sebastian

Terry sc. thank you very much for all the info, photos and views you have offered so far.I can only speak for myself but I am sure that all of us find them of great sentimental and reading value & very exciting as far as looking as far as the car development view is concerned.

The LRP TCS system is portrayed in one of the pages of the 1993 RCCA worlds coverage article posted by kenooze:

http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=world93lcu0.jpg

Any more details/photos of the system and its electronics?ANy info on the Hannson TCS that is just mentioned in this page?

4WD Petermann cars?Any photos?Don't tell me that those were also banned...

Sebastian: great work on that one.Too bad that 4WS is not visible...any reports on how it drove or its race performance? Germans seem to have quite a cult in making great race specific platforms (Durango being the latest) .Keep them coming-they are just magic.

Posting all the Worlds reviews would be one of the best gifts of an RC Internet forum...They would be greatly appreciated .thank you for your time and will to share with us all Terry sc.This is a great forum...

P.S.The 1/12 Schumacher car in your collection is super cool Hope to see a thread here at sometime with all Schumacher pan car history

Team Best Performance wrote: The LRP TCS system is portrayed in one of the pages of the 1993 RCCA worlds coverage article posted by kenooze:

Any more details/photos of the system and its electronics?ANy info on the Hannson TCS that is just mentioned in this page?

I have similar pictures from the UK magazines, but that is all that is known about them as they were banned before the race they were never seen in competition.
Supposed to be very successful. LRP had spent some time developing their system before the worlds, but IFMAR banned it for the simple reason that on low grip tracks every driver would have to buy one, so there was no advantage to allowing them apart from making LRP richer.

P.S.The 1/12 Schumacher car in your collection is super cool Hope to see a thread here at sometime with all Schumacher pan car history

The history would be very short as they only made 4 cars, and 3 of those were developments of the same one. I might look into it.

Terry sc. we would love to see more photos of the LRP or Hansson TCS system and more info on them like what kind of sensors did they use ,or some word from mr Lautenbach himself.As I see from Tamiyaclub you are into electronics yourself.We had been thinking of such a system for stability in one of our teams speed run project as means of increasing stability .If you or someone else can help in the design of such a system please get in touch .The project is non-commercial & serious plus is sponsored by great companies such as Sanyo. Any contribution/help will be publicly acknowledged.

I might be wrong but I think that Schumacher came up with the ball differential as we know it today on rc cars ,firstly launching it on their pan cars.

The developments of their cars constituted very different structures from version to version,so it would be quite interesting to hear how things worked and their race results from back then.
Anything you can find (especially worlds reports ) is very welcome whenever you feel like uploading it.

Here's that promised German 'frontrunner' article. Any questions? Feel free to ask.

Page one


Page two


Page three



All images taken from German amt magazine.

Cheers

Sebastian

http://www93.sakura.ne.jp/~time-tunnel/07-4-29-6.html



Idon't think the point was to make the best driving rc ever and wonder what body will fit, but the FWD at the end belongs in this tread kinda