MIP 4X4 kit for the RC10 - GAUGING INTEREST ONLY

[Chewbacca]

Gotta say, I love the armchair quarterbacks/engineers/machinists who think they know how much this kit should cost MIP to "reproduce."

Since I got the "modern tech is cheaper" ball rolling (I think) I'll also say something. I am by far no expert on the whole pricing process, but I do deal with CAD CAM, QA scanning and so on. taking Roi into account isn't directly part of my job, but it does come across my desk.

Okay I have no problem with the fact, that MIP is in the business to make a profit, wich it should be to stay around for hopefully manny more years to come. But in this case I (as in me personally) feel like this is a ripoff for $500.

You don't have to OWN all of the mentioned tools for a project like this. You just have the the things done for you for a price that you can't accomplish yourself.

And yes, molds wouldn't probably pay off untill higher quantities.

I think a good compairison would be the X-Factory conversion kits, wich include a whole lot more for less $$. Those guies started out pretty small and still had an acceptable price imho. The delrin Dynotech parts also come to mind that are reasonably priced.

Hey Mr. Lexan 2 more of my cents...

[CNA75]

Regardless my wife would kill me if I paid $500 for parts-- old or new.

Guess you lot need to buy a pair of trousers.....so that you can wear them in your relationships every now and then!!

[MOmo]

Couple things come to mind:

1: SWEET! It would be sick to have a vintage 4wd RC10.

MOmo

I hate to have to point out the obvious here but.... new parts are not vintage parts. Just saying.

You struck that nerve Momo!

Scott,
I only used that as the basis of an Aluminum tub based RC10 4wd chassis vs my modern specific B44 that I already own. Yes I agree that in the "technical" sense, It would be a re- release and not orig. kit.

Eh, im not worried, I think Scott prolly knew what I meant by my statement.

I know people with machine shops as well, and once the specs are programmed in, it doesn't take very long, but a lot of work goes into specs and inputting the algorithms into the computer. Its still time and $$ to make parts. It is interesting to compare costs of modern equipment today with parts/kits etc back then.


IF the cost was reasonably priced, i could see getting 2 or 3 of these.



MOmo

[Eau Rouge]

I think a good compairison would be the X-Factory conversion kits, wich include a whole lot more for less $$. Those guies started out pretty small and still had an acceptable price imho. The delrin Dynotech parts also come to mind that are reasonably priced.

Just ask Chazz how much he's had to invest in his "reasonably" priced kits, or ask Chad how much profit he's making on Delrin RC10 arms.




The market sets the value for anything. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay, and I'd be willing to bet there are a LOT of people who will pay $500 for a newly made kit—regardless of how much it costs to produce.

[Chewbacca]

I think a good compairison would be the X-Factory conversion kits, wich include a whole lot more for less $$. Those guies started out pretty small and still had an acceptable price imho. The delrin Dynotech parts also come to mind that are reasonably priced.

Just ask Chazz how much he's had to invest in his "reasonably" priced kits, or ask Chad how much profit he's making on Delrin RC10 arms.

The market sets the value for anything. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay, and I'd be willing to bet there are a LOT of people who will pay $500 for a newly made kit—regardless of how much it costs to produce.

I did read all of what Chazz had (has) on his home page, but his kits needed WAY more R&D as compared to just remaking something from existing parts.

The Delrin arms on the other hand, probably not much R&D but some mill programming yes.

I doubt neither Chazz nor chad are making their kits and parts just for the fun of it. They will be making their margin if not a high one.

I am not at all saying mip should be giving these kits away, but i just can't shake the feeling that the profit margin on this speciific kit seems to be quite high.

[fastang]

I talked to my father about this who has been a machinest for 30+yrs and we both agreed that there is maybe $30 in material and only a few minutes to machine the parts...

Thirty years, eh? A "only a few minutes" to machine all of the parts in the kit?

Hell, they should just make a few hundred thousand of the kits and sell them for $50 a shot if it's that easy. Send it to China, they can probably knock it off for $6 a kit while we're at it. No problem. Shouldn't be much more than a few hours total of billable labor.




Gotta say, I love the armchair quarterbacks/engineers/machinists who think they know how much this kit should cost MIP to "reproduce."

How many parts do you think they actually need to machine? NOT MANY!!! The gearboxes, knuckles and shafts. What else is there? Gears, bearings, belts, screws, all very easy to get! Hell, they could even farm out the shafts to someone that only does shafts and get them for fractions less than they can make them for.

Don't give me this BS about machine setup either. Sure it may cost a couple hundred $$$ in labor for programming/setup but divide that into the number of units produced and it comes out to a few bucks a piece if that.

I gotta say, I love the professional quarterbacks/engineers/machinists that and make fun of us armchair QBs yet have no actual facts to back up their statements on the subject.

BTW, I was wrong about my dad. He was a machinist for 35yrs and has been in that field for 45yrs. The last 10 years he has been quoting jobs for his company. This involves reading prints and determining the amount of labor, material, tooling, and machine time for the job. I think he is qualified to comment on the subject.

[Daddeo]

The subjects of pricing, machining, cost etc. can be debated until the cows come home. This thread was started to simply gauge interest in MIP re-producing their 4X4 kit. The price is not yet set in stone and will most likely change if they decide to do it. Eustace will do what it takes to make it affordable and no matter how much griping or complaining is done it will make no difference in the outcome. If you're not interested in buying one of the kits then don't post in this thread about pricing since it is not yet known what the final price will be yet, the amount given was only an "ballpark" figure from Eustace. Just be thankful that a manufacturer is willing to work directly with people in the hobby to potentially make something that people really want.

[Charlie don't surf]

The market sets the value for anything. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay, and I'd be willing to bet there are a LOT of people who will pay $500 for a newly made kit—regardless of how much it costs to produce.[/quote]


ie--"cost is only an issue in the absance of value"

This topic is almost as out of control as the Ebay thread to Lowery's car

[badhoopty]

i dont really want to read back through this thread to find out where the 500 price came from that everybody is talking about, but is that price coming from mip?

[Daddeo]

$500 is the ballpark figure that Eustace gave me over the phone. Like he said, once the project gets rolling he will do what he can to keep the final selling price low as possible.

[Chewbacca]

okay you're right.

sorry for getting the thread off track.

i still am interested, just not for that price.

[reign79]

Yeah me to i would take two for sure at a normal price. Ie not $500 i mean are we really getting off track the thread is for who would want one so i would think price would be the do all to that question.

[HotRodJosh]

Well Josh, you are wrong about the value thing. I could care less about the value of my collection. I have never been in to this hobby as an investment, and anybody who uses radio controlled cars and equipment as an investment is a moron. I just don't want to be buying something rare (or not) made by company X, spending the bucks on it, only to find out once I've bought it that Joe Blow made it in his basement last month. If you want to talk about people's money motivation, let's talk about the motivation of those making the bootleg parts.

No....not really....you're misunderstanding. I'm not talking about any "bootleg" or Joe Blow made stuff..... That stuff doesn't compare to even a repro/repop.
I don't see R/C's as an investment either.....

[fastang]

Yeah me to i would take two for sure at a normal price. Ie not $500 i mean are we really getting off track the thread is for who would want one so i would think price would be the do all to that question.

I wanted to do a reply just like this when someone said we shouldn't be talking about price but I didn't want to start another fight. At the very least it gives the parties involved in the project a better idea of how many people are still interested at the $500 mark. I bet more than half the people that said they were "seriously interested" dropped off the list with that price. I know it took me out of the running. Alot of people don't have that kind of money to burn on nonessentials. It might be a different story at around $300.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I think it will come down to do they produce/sell 200 kits at $500 or 500 kits at $200. I know which way I would go!

[civilguy]

Regardless my wife would kill me if I paid $500 for parts-- old or new.

Guess you lot need to buy a pair of trousers.....so that you can wear them in your relationships every now and then!!

I tend to wear them when I leave the house as the only breadwinner in the family. But I suppose I could tell my wife who carefully manages our meager funds to not buy groceries for the kids for a couple weeks. That would show her!