RC10Talk - The Net's Largest Vintage R/C Community

mrlexan wrote:

civilguy wrote:Is it really a repro if it's from the original molds?

Some of my bodies aren't repros, they are re-releases.

I was jokingly referring to the ongoing back-n-forth on what constitutes repros, re-res, etc. that has gone on here for quite some time.

I thought the big note about me being thoroughly sarcastic would be enough to NOT reignite this topic.

I was kidding.


EDIT: btw $500 would be too much for me. Closer to half that and I would have to work some OT.

Count 3 here, let me know.......

So what's the latest from MIP on this...?

$500 is too rich for my blood too.

I talked to my father about this who has been a machinest for 30+yrs and we both agreed that there is maybe $30 in material and only a few minutes to machine the parts. They are copying an existing part so they don't need to roll the cost of R&D into the price. Sure the machines that are used are big$$$ but they already have them for their existing parts. They don't need to buy anything special for this project.

The way I look at it is if this project doesn't work out they make $0 more than the profit of their standard line. Why not do the project and profit a few $$$/kit and more importantly keep a few employees busy for a few months in this bad economy. In other words its not going to make or brake the company. Its a side job so to speak.

I can't justify $500 for the tranny and related parts when I can buy a new, top of the line, latest and greatest 4wd buggy for the same price.

HotRodJosh wrote:

civilguy wrote:Is it really a repro if it's from the original molds?

No...it's not really a "repro", it's a "re-release"...look at Edelbrock and it's "re-released" flathead intake manifolds....it's not a reproduction if it's made by the OG company.... Guys who whine about "repros" tend to get worried that their OG parts will lose it's value....that generally doesn't happen, as there will always be "those guys" who will insist on only "made during correct era" parts....
Hope they're using NOS bodies, paint, tires, servo tape and tools......

I'd love an MIP 4wd RC10....but I could never afford one....

Well Josh, you are wrong about the value thing. I could care less about the value of my collection. I have never been in to this hobby as an investment, and anybody who uses radio controlled cars and equipment as an investment is a moron. I just don't want to be buying something rare (or not) made by company X, spending the bucks on it, only to find out once I've bought it that Joe Blow made it in his basement last month. If you want to talk about people's money motivation, let's talk about the motivation of those making the bootleg parts.

I do agree with you about the Edelbrock or any original company re-releasing old parts. I don't have any problem with that. They came up with the idea originally, they own the rights, they can do whatever they like.

fastang wrote:I talked to my father about this who has been a machinest for 30+yrs and we both agreed that there is maybe $30 in material and only a few minutes to machine the parts...

Thirty years, eh? A "only a few minutes" to machine all of the parts in the kit?

Hell, they should just make a few hundred thousand of the kits and sell them for $50 a shot if it's that easy. Send it to China, they can probably knock it off for $6 a kit while we're at it. No problem. Shouldn't be much more than a few hours total of billable labor.




Gotta say, I love the armchair quarterbacks/engineers/machinists who think they know how much this kit should cost MIP to "reproduce."

would love one but would depend on price

Eau Rouge, I think the point is that there isn't a whole lot of complexity to demand an absurd price tag. I started a thread the other day, you could technically have a whole system of parts for the cost of a set of CVD's, a belt, 2 pulleys, the guts and part of a case from a stealth trans, an idler pulley from something(I didn't investigate that), and the upright/caster block setup from a b44.

Back when those kits were made, bear in mind that CNC equipment didn't exist in the volume it does today, and some of the 'high' dollar stuff can be made much more cheaply now.

Oh, and if you ever talk to a machinist, most of them will say that it 'only takes a few minutes' to do anything, since they are well aware of capabilities of their equipment.

Yeah, 500 bones does seem very steep for an new old conversion kit, when you can buy a new factory team B44 for $334.99 from Tower. If I was looking for a new (sorry, this is new stuff we're talking about here) 4wd buggy, the choice would be a no brainer for me. I really don't understand how there will be any demand for a $500 kit like this but hey, I'm no marketing genius.

Realize that a $250 kit in the 80's dollars is comparable to a lot more than the $500 cost now.

Eau Rouge wrote:Gotta say, I love the armchair quarterbacks/engineers/machinists who think they know how much this kit should cost MIP to "reproduce."

I didn't take it anyway........ I just based my opinion off my personal experience working at Roush for 10 years. I am sure there are many ways to skin this cat, but my comments where based on how Roush executed programs for and charged it's customers. $70.00/hr for manual machining and $110/hr for automation, not included any setup charge (engineering..... no math data, those machines don't work), and that was 3+ years ago.

I know Doug's dad has a machining business.

Prices on certain items have plummetted due to the advances in manufacturing and technology. Case in point- my Airtronics 75mhz radio I paid about $150 in 1986 is comparable to a radio at 1/2 that cost (or less) now. The Futaba MC-8 esc I paid $119.99 for in 1985 doesn't compare to $35 models now. I understand that these are all now mass produced items (versus niche markets bitd), but even at lower production rates I don't think costs would rise to double the mid-80s prices.

I don't know if this can be extrapolated to apply to machining equipment advances in the past quarter century, but it's safe to say that all not all commodities follow inflation curves.

Regardless my wife would kill me if I paid $500 for parts-- old or new.

civilguy wrote:Regardless my wife would kill me if I paid $500 for parts-- old or new.

I hear ya on that. I was almost divorced (once) on something similar to that...... just add another zero. She didn't say a word on a drive back to MI from SC.

jwscab wrote:Eau Rouge, I think the point is that there isn't a whole lot of complexity to demand an absurd price tag. I started a thread the other day, you could technically have a whole system of parts for the cost of a set of CVD's, a belt, 2 pulleys, the guts and part of a case from a stealth trans, an idler pulley from something(I didn't investigate that), and the upright/caster block setup from a b44.

We're not talking about mass produced parts. We're talking about limited production items for a very limited market. Not to mention the fact that if you ask 100 people if they will buy a t-shirt for the website, and 100 say "yes" you are guaranteed only to sell about 30 of them. The fact is, reproducing a kit like this has ENORMOUS risk for MIP, regardless of what anyone says or thinks. It's not just a few parts slapped into a bag and stuffed into a box.

I'm not commenting one way or the other about the supposed retail price of the repro, all I'm saying is that some of you guys really have no idea what "actual costs" are when it comes to producing something like this for a limited production market. This isn't Tamiya we're talking about.

Back when those kits were made, bear in mind that CNC equipment didn't exist in the volume it does today, and some of the 'high' dollar stuff can be made much more cheaply now.

1986 wasn't the dark ages in the machining world. Yes, things can be done more cost effectively today, but that doesn't change the fact that producing something in triple digit quantities is never cost-effective.

Oh, and if you ever talk to a machinist, most of them will say that it 'only takes a few minutes' to do anything, since they are well aware of capabilities of their equipment.

In my 39-odd years, I have never heard a machinist say that "it only takes a few minutes" do do anything start to finish. Maybe the time that the machine is actually cutting, but the set-up, programming, fixtures, production, and finishing required for anything CNC machined is NOT a simple plug-n-play process. Ask me how I know.





Just remember, Tamiya's 930 RSR Anniversary kit retailed for $918.00 and how many of them are available today?





Which would YOU rather have?

civilguy wrote: Regardless my wife would kill me if I paid $500 for parts-- old or new.

Yeah, I'd be dead meat too.