Mid-motor Losi XX

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stickboy007
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Mid-motor Losi XX

Post by stickboy007 »

Figured I'd make a formal post about it here while also doing my usual YouTube content...

The "idea" came to me on a whim a few weeks ago and I figured I'd search around to see if anyone else has tried this. At least as far as I've searched, I did not find anything. Ok, then <cracks fingers>. The concept is pretty simple, as the bulkhead and gearbox mounting holes are well-aligned to just flip everything around. There is a bit of cutting you have to do to the chassis to make it fit, but otherwise it slots right in.

Some things I haven't covered yet in the videos are the need for longer screws going into the motor plate from the chassis, to keep the chassis from flexing either forward or backward. I did that already, but just haven't made a video for it yet. The aluminum brace which attaches to the top of the gearbox and runs against the bulkhead won't quite work the same in a mid motor configuration. If you think about it, in rear motor config, if the car is going forward and flips over, the tower gets pushed back, which pushes the bulkhead back and can snap the top of the gearbox. That aluminum brace resists that force; however, in mid-motor config it is flipped around and so the brace won't protect the gearbox as much. It may still help a little, as it is spreading out some of the stress applied to that region, but only time (and some horrible driving which I'm not prone to) can tell if it still helps at all with this configuration.

I also added a front brace supplement and modified rear tower, both from Factory Works. The rear tower fits a B6 wing mount, although I find that the wing looks like it's leaning backwards, even with the wing mount spacer that's supposed to lean it forward. I lightly modified the way the wing mount mounts to the tower, to give it more forward lean (will show up in the next video). Body is also cut and wasn't too bad to make it fit correctly, although I would say it helps to screw an extension onto the rear tower to help brace the top of the body. Otherwise there's just not enough support to keep the body from sloshing around if it flips over or something hits it from above.

General thoughts so far on this project:
1.) I do like the idea of a mid-motor XX and, at least for now until others start copying it, it is unique. The Atomic Carbon XXX mid-motor conversion was pretty cool, but custom jobs are always more fun.

2.) As far as vintage mid-motor buggies go, I have this, a Tekin RC10 mid conversion, and a Kyosho Rampage Pro electric conversion. The Losi is probably the lightest, but also possibly more fragile in certain areas (front arms come to mind) and certainly harder to work on and tune. The Kyosho is much easier to tune, as it was designed as a nitro buggy and so naturally has a mid-motor configuration. Just makes it easier to reach ball studs, tune gear ratios, etc. That Kyosho has also been my benchmark to-date for vintage 2wd buggies, as nothing else I have comes close to it on the track. We will see how the "XXM" compares when it's ready. My original plan was to run my TRX3 (maiden run) this year at VONATS and bring a Pro-X as backup, but now this XXM has me thinking twice. Spoiled for choice...

3.) Worth noting that this is a XX and not a XX-CR, for which the rear pivot block assembly is a little different and so a mid-motor conversion for that will be largely the same story but may require some minor tweaks.

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Re: Mid-motor Losi XX

Post by GoMachV »

That's awesome, I'm helping a friend with one currently. Well, it's in the mail. He did the basic work and wants me to design the braces. It will be interesting to see the different takes on how to go about it. I'll post up some pics when it arrives, all I have for now is this
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Re: Mid-motor Losi XX

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Yeah that's D'Wayne's. He's converting a CR. He hadn't started that project until I showed him what I had and how I did it, as previously he had a completely different approach in mind which would have increased the wheelbase significantly and was convinced that was the only way to do it. I'm a little peeved that he gave me zero credit when he posted his project on FB, but whatever. I'll kick his butt on the track ;)

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Re: Mid-motor Losi XX

Post by GoMachV »

Doh! Good to know. Maybe I'll engrave your username into the back side of the parts for him :lol:
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Re: Mid-motor Losi XX

Post by stickboy007 »

That would be hilarious!

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Re: Mid-motor Losi XX

Post by stickboy007 »

Front brace reinforcement from Factory Works. You just have to drill one hole into your front brace, which is a small price to pay for the extra strength. Serviceability of the XX makes itself known here, because you need to take out the hinge pin to remove the brace. However, taking that out means removing one of the inner ball studs AND the shock on that side, so the hinge pin can slide all the way out. It just means more disassembly than necessary to do some simple thing. Typical Losi ;)
0626241256-1.jpg
This is the not-at-all-phallic extension I mounted to the body mount portion of the rear tower (It's just a Kyosho long ball stud). In mid-motor configuration, the tower is all the way in the back and the body just isn't long enough to really reach it. So I will mount the body to the chassis sidewalls with velcro and use this rear extension to help brace the top rear of the body.
0626241256a-1.jpg
I cut some lexan out and attached to the rear bulkhead in order to capture the rear inner hinge pins. Seems to work okay, but a shiny, pretty G10 or carbon part would of course look sexier...
0626241256b-1.jpg
The Factory Works rear tower is cut to allow the use of a B6 wing mount. Fits nicely, but there is not enough forward lean in the wing. So I put a spacer between the tower and the bottom mounting holes, which puts the wing mount at an angle. You do have to eyeball it a bit with each of the four mounting screws, so that the wing sits symmetrically left-to-right, both in terms of forward lean as well as being level left-to-right.
0626241257-1.jpg
0626241257a-1.jpg
A fair amount of material must be removed from the rear of the chassis, especially on the motor side. This requires you to use a shorter front right screw for the rear pivot mounting, so it doesn't interfere with the motor. There is enough space to capture the left part of the rear pivot with some lock nuts, but no room for that on the right. The right rear screw does clear the motor, but there is just barely not enough space to put a lock nut there. Maybe if I took the motor out, then put the lock nut in, and re-mounted the motor, it would fit, but it's very tight. Even the ones on the left hand side are a pain. The left front screw, with a lock nut, basically puts the pinion gear into a box. Replacing the pinion means first loosening the pinion grub screw, then removing the motor mount screws and pulling the motor out, then pulling the pinion gear up (and vice versa for mounting it). You can't just pull the pinion "out."

Gear cover is also, naturally, cut to fit. I could have left a bit more material on the bottom near the spur gear, but overall not too bad.
0626241257b-1.jpg
0626241257c-1.jpg
I used a Kyosho UM733 and cut some of the rear flat section, to pick up the curved gap between the motor plate and the chassis. Needed to drill and countersink two new holes into the chassis. Then, with one screw mounting the piece, use a 2mm bit to drill into the motor plate, then 2.8mm to widen the hole (if you start at 2.8, the movement in the drill as you're holding it down will end up mucking up the hole you just drilled through the chassis, so start small to do the bulk of the work and then a quick blip with a larger bit to widen the hole). Then repeat on the other side. Then tap the holes in the motor plate and use a 3x12 screw and crank it down to tighten the motor plate against the brace. This will improve fore/aft stiffness and prevent excessive flex. Since we don't have an actual waterfall here, we need a trick like this to mimic the effect of a waterfall.
0626241257d-1.jpg
0626241258-1.jpg
Static motor timing should be set to zero or negative. This is because the motor must spin in reverse orientation (you need a ESC to support this) in order for the car to go forward, since the motor is on the right side of the chassis with a 3-gear transmission. This means your timing advance is in the negative direction on the endbell. I still have to map out the negative locations (15, 30, 45, etc.) on this particular motor. Right now I just eyeballed it at somewhere between zero and -10deg.
0626241259-1.jpg

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Re: Mid-motor Losi XX

Post by GoMachV »

so, here is how slow I am. I just now figured out who you are :lol: :roll: Getting old sucks. 2+2= squirrel!
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Re: Mid-motor Losi XX

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GoMachV wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:04 pm so, here is how slow I am. I just now figured out who you are :lol: :roll: Getting old sucks. 2+2= squirrel!
hahaha.....

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Re: Mid-motor Losi XX

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