My interpretation of the IFMAR 91 car

[fredswain]

An American company would charge at least $10k for this. This price is based on the mold staying with them in China. If I wanted to take possession of it, the cost would go up greatly. We've seen companies get screwed over with foreign manufacturing when the molding companies suddenly go out of business. It completely shuts down production leaving those companies with a difficult task of trying to recover their tooling or starting all over again in time and expense.

[XLR8]

That’s about 1/4 of a recent verbal quote I received when describing a part to the people that made my molds.

Little trivia- while I own my molds, I’ve never seen them. The company offers a million pull warranty when you store them there- at no cost. If I remove them the warranty is gone. These were made in the early 90’s so that’s a pretty stellar warranty imo haha

Stellar indeed!
Neither have we seen any of our molds. Most times, the molds are press specific so you couldn't move them if you wanted to.

[XLR8]

An American company would charge at least $10k for this. This price is based on the mold staying with them in China. If I wanted to take possession of it, the cost would go up greatly. We've seen companies get screwed over with foreign manufacturing when the molding companies suddenly go out of business. It completely shuts down production leaving those companies with a difficult task of trying to recover their tooling or starting all over again in time and expense.

Been there, done that.

[GoMachV]

Most times, the molds are press specific so you couldn't move them if you wanted to.

I suspect you are correct. I mean, that’s what “I” would do.

[XLR8]

I had mentioned something about making arms from sheet stock like those from Dynotech as an alternative to 3d printed ones. Well, apparently Jake (aka Seabass) has already done this.

https://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=36995

... and he did it way back in late 2014. I guess there really IS nothing new under the sun?

He also used a lot of off-the-shelf B5 parts on this car. If anyone wanted a 91 Stealth inspired car that's also relatively bullet-proof, this might be the best way to go.
... and it looks KILLER imho.

[XLR8]

Most times, the molds are press specific so you couldn't move them if you wanted to.

I suspect you are correct. I mean, that’s what “I” would do.

No you wouldn't. You are honest and ethical.

[GoMachV]

No you wouldn't. You are honest and ethical.

[XLR8]

hahaha....
Hey, you got a PM.

[XLR8]

Actually, honesty may not factor-in all that much. Yes, portability could be incorporated into mold design but that would certainly add cost... maybe even a lot more cost.
However, many quotes from molders also include projected life (cycles) before the mold is considered to be "worn out". This projection assumes that alignment pins and press tonnage are maintained throughout the life of the tool. It always amazed me how accurate these "estimates" actually proved to be.

[fredswain]

Sales would really only need to top around 600 cars or so to break even on tooling. The 9500 number was based on selling them for cost, or only $0.19 each. With a markup to around $7 per pair and family molds, the number comes down significantly. The large manufacturers will fulfill that number with the first production run. It's just unattainable for individuals.

[XLR8]

Very good points, Fred. I could be wrong but I seriously doubt there are 600 customers out there.

All this discussion about mold costs, order volume, investment return, etc., makes 3d printing seem not so bad. Every process has its place I guess.
I've just received an email to say that my parts are being printed today.

[GoMachV]

there is a gentleman (Fred Baumgartner‎) on facebook that is injection molding in his basement with very nice looking results- cant wait to hear how testing goes.

[fredswain]

3D printing costs more to the end user as they are paying more for each part. It saves the designer the tooling cost but at the expense of profit. Whereas a $0.20 part could easily be marked up to $3.50 with a molded part, that profit initially goes towards repaying the tooling costs which were paid up front. After that it's pure profit. At some point, the tooling wears out so hopefully it lasts the life of the product, and in rc typically will. With printing, a $3.25 part to print might only get marked up to $3.50 but there's no tooling costs to recover. Unfortunately, the reality is that a part that can be sold for $3.50 molded will probably cost twice that in print so in reality it's more expensive to the end user but the designer has no overhead and little to no risk or up front financial expense. They just might never get enough in return for it to ultimately matter. The few printed parts I sell on shapeways have typically made me about $30 a month. Sometimes I don't hit that. For something to be worth my while fulltime, it would have to make me at least $200 per day. In the end, for me this is a hobby. It's something I do for fun not profit. I'll leave that headache to the large companies. I am more than happy to help design and create things as long as those people understand the time and effort that goes into it and the ultimate final costs that they'll pay to achieve that.

[fredswain]

there is a gentleman (Fred Baumgartner‎) on facebook that is injection molding in his basement with very nice looking results- cant wait to hear how testing goes.

I saw that. They look nice. Until they are tested, we have no idea if they are durable or not. Fortunately, he has the ability to do something like that. The people that own the tooling and have the ability will always have the advantage over those that need to outsource.

[XLR8]

Well stated Fred. I'm with you; I also have no interest in the commercial side of this. I'm afraid it would cease to be fun.

When I read "... has an injection molding machine in his basement" it made me laugh.
I knew a guy who had a very well equipped machine shop in his basement. Last time I spoke to him he was building his own AR15's.