Finish What You Started - Vintage RC10

[RC10resto]

check this out

http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35116

and lot's in this thread

http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=34024&hilit=stealth+trans+fix&start=915

now just need to find gomachv's video

http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=36121

[JasonB]

My RC10 World's Car arrived on Friday. It hasn't taken me long between work and chores, etc... around the house to get this one close to finished. I've got it built all the way to the point of putting shocks on it. I figured putting this one together from scratch will give me some experience and help when I go to finish up my original Gold Pan. I'm still waiting on electronics to arrive next week. I ordered a 17.5 T sensored brushless + brushless ESC and a steering servo + 2s Lipo's, charger, etc... Once those arrive I'll get this one finished up, give it a few test drives and move on to finishing up my Gold Pan.

I have two questions regarding the World's Car.

First is what pinion do some of you run with a 17.5T brushless motor? I see the manual calls for a 30T 48P pinion with the stock 81T spur. My ESC does not have the advanced timing... whatever, its club stock spec or something like that. I didn't really even understand what I was ordering when I did, although now I understand that is to keep it at stock for ROAR racing rules or something along those lines, which I'm cool with for now. Is that what a lot of you run on the stock World's Car? 30T pinion? I have a 15 and 16T pinion on hand, but plan to order a 30T at a minimum, if not a few others to try out, but wanted to get some input. I understand the whole gearing up and down concept, just that not knowing this car at all, and not yet having the pinion the manual recommends, I wanted to see what other people have found works well. This will mainly just be for bashing and running around the neighborhood for now. Although if I find a local track I might like to go try a race or two out. It sounds fun!

My second question is regarding the stealth tranny. After slapping it together it seems really stiff to me. I mean... like it takes a good amount of torque to turn the spur. This seems completely wrong. The way it is now I see a lot of energy loss from the motor to get this sucker to turn. The 6speed I built at age 12/13 in my Gold Pan is a little rough, but it turns fairly easily. This stealth is way to stiff. I'm going to tear it apart again this evening and reassemble it. I'm thinking somehow I got a bearing binding or something. I would have expected it to turn pretty easily, and to be pretty smooth. I'm not wrong in thinking something is amiss am I?

Thanks again in advance for the input.

Good call!

Gearing: I swapped the 81t spur for a 78t off the bat... and I feel they were off in their 2.25 stealth gearing recommendations for 17.5 motor. In my case an 81t spur with a 30T pinion won't even fit... the motor contacts the rear chassis screws. I think they just didn't want to include a second spur gear in the kit... With that said, gearing is going to be very specific to your tire, track and even driving style. On my racer I am most currently running a 32t pinion / 78t spur and still have low motor temps (+0 timing) and not quite as much straightaway speed as the other guys in 17.5. I will be trying a 76t spur tonight and see where it's at.

Transmission: As shown in the links above, the worlds kit has a topshaft (B4) which is ground too close to the gear causing the slipper back plate to rub on the motor plate. There are two ways to fix this easily: 1. associated will send you a replacement top shaft if you ask. 2. Buy a B4 top shaft spacer, ream out the top shaft hole (so the spacer can contact the inner bearing race) install spacer and it's fixed. I've done both, and personally I prefer the spacer.

I would check to make sure the bearings are fully seated in the case, check for burrs on the gears and that you didn't way over-torque the trans case screws. I was skeptical upon reading, but the new stealth gears also apparently need to be "broken in"? Mine had some resistance when new, but after running 15-20 mins they spun freely. This was unlike my vintage stealths which spun freely from the first build.

[LostCyborg]

Thank you for those Links RC10resto.

Those were a good read. I got a little confused regarding the different tranny versions and all the problems being reported, but if I think I got to understand correctly that there are a few differences between the different stealth trannys.

Am I understanding correctly that the current World's Car is using the B4 top shaft and V2 slipper? I think I've determined the idler to be the cause of roughness in mine. Fully assembled (no slipper, spur or motor plate installed yet), I even asked my wife how she would describe the feel of it turning and she said "gritty and rough". LOL. So I definitely have a problem.

Top shaft and idler in, diff out, it definitely has some rough spots.

Idler and diff in, top shaft out, it again definitely has some rough spots.

That doesn't mean that I might not have some roughness on the top shaft and diff gears as well, but this lead me to target the idler as the first problem to resolve.

After watching gomachv's video it looks like part 6570 may fix my issue, but probably not without a 6565 case, due to the way the bearings fit. It looks like the 6565 tranny case is hard to get your hands on these days, so that may not even be an option.

Then my other concern is that I may have a bad top shaft. That seems to be the other common issue. I'm not sure how it should "feel" once fully assembled against the motor plate, with slipper and spur installed, but mine is pretty stiff. I'm not talking rounghness in the tranny now, its just plain stiff to turn. I would have thought it would be nice and loose and spin freely. Less friction and resistance would translate to less effort for the motor to make the car go. I even backed the top shaft nut off as far as I could without it falling off and it was still pretty stiff and fairly hard to spin.

When I have time today or tomorrow I may call TA and see if they are willing to do anything. It looks like the 6565 tranny case is hard to get your hands on these days, and it seems there is a trend of poor manufacturing around this particular tranny.

[LostCyborg]

I would check to make sure the bearings are fully seated in the case, check for burrs on the gears and that you didn't way over-torque the trans case screws. I was skeptical upon reading, but the new stealth gears also apparently need to be "broken in"? Mine had some resistance when new, but after running 15-20 mins they spun freely. This was unlike my vintage stealths which spun freely from the first build.

Haha... I just responded to the last post, and you may have answered some of the questions I posed.

Thanks! I'll check that the bearings are fully seated and look for burs. I think I have identified at least one on my idler. As for the top shaft I will probably call associated just to see what they'll send me, even if I order a B4 top shaft as well. Seems like the parts could come in handy at some point either way.

I already scored another Gold Pan off ebay to be a runner for 60 some bucks with shipping that I'm going to rebuild. Crap... I haven't even gotten one of these together yet and they're already multiplying. What have I gotten myself into?

[JasonB]

Thanks! I'll check that the bearings are fully seated and look for burs. I think I have identified at least one on my idler. As for the top shaft I will probably call associated just to see what they'll send me, even if I order a B4 top shaft as well. Seems like the parts could come in handy at some point either way.

I already scored another Gold Pan off ebay to be a runner for 60 some bucks with shipping that I'm going to rebuild. Crap... I haven't even gotten one of these together yet and they're already multiplying. What have I gotten myself into?

They will send you a new B4 top shaft 9601. At least that's what they sent me for my two worlds kits.

It's strange how they multiply, right? I keep telling myself that I can only run one at a time anyway...
You got a pretty good deal if you got a complete A/B stamp car for $60. Usually when I see them go that cheap they are missing tons of parts, beat to heck or have hacked-up chassis which kills the value. At the very least having a vintage runner and a worlds car will give you a good idea how much the car improved over the years!

[LostCyborg]

They will send you a new B4 top shaft 9601. At least that's what they sent me for my two worlds kits.

It's strange how they multiply, right? I keep telling myself that I can only run one at a time anyway...
You got a pretty good deal if you got a complete A/B stamp car for $60. Usually when I see them go that cheap they are missing tons of parts, beat to heck or have hacked-up chassis which kills the value. At the very least having a vintage runner and a worlds car will give you a good idea how much the car improved over the years!

I figure eventually everyone in the family deserves to have one to drive.

They of course didn't provide too many details in the auction, but from the pics it was mostly all there. Rear wheels appeared to be the only thing missing really. Had a 6speed transmission, which appeared completely assembled. Chassis looked in tact and hadn't been drilled with extra holes for a stealth or anything yet or hacked to fit new parts or anything from what I could see, so I think it was a pretty good deal. LOL... I'll find out when it gets here. It's an A stamp and didn't look too beat up actually. Looked pretty good.... so I thought it was a good deal, but I may learn the hard way. That purchase was sort of impulsive. I thought it was going to be a bid war, and I'd get killed, but then again I threw my bid in with less than a minute remaining, so maybe I snaked it from someone else...

Worst case I'll have an A chassis I can build off of and not feel too guilty about running and scratching up instead of my apparently rare unrun A chassis.

[LostCyborg]

I called Team Associated today and they're going to send me a new B4 top shaft for my World's car. The guy I talked to said that other than the top shaft problem its completely normal for the new Stealth's to be a bit tight, stick in spots and require break in. He claimed it was because they made the new one with tighter tolerances to withstand brushless motors. I don't know whether that is true or not, but he did admit China milled a bunch of top shafts too far back and is sending a new one, so I'll be happy when it arrives.

He also suggested throwing a washer on between the motor plate and slipper as a temporary solution until the new top shaft arrives. I may give that a shot and report back how that works out.

I've been spinning the top shaft with the tranny case closed using a cordless drill now and then, and I could be crazy, but I do get the impression it is getting smoother. I still have a few places it gets stuck or feels like it binds slightly, but for the life of me I can't see any burs on the gears or anything else I could do to improve it, so I guess I'll have to have patience.

My electronics should be here this week, so I may have a running car by the end of the week!

[LostCyborg]

I tried the washer idea, and wish I knew the size of the washer I used. I think its something around a #8 sized washer. The thing is I couldn't find one around that fit perfectly. It needed to fit over the machined flat, yet be too small to slide past where the machined flat ended on the top shaft. I had some left over washers from some project or another that were nylon / plastic of some kind. I used a drill and just widened the opening enough so it would squeeze onto the machined flat. It was almost too wide (width wise from the tranny case towards the locknut), but it allowed for just enough bite on the outer slipper plate to latch on. Tightening the locknut down just to the point where the threads met the end of the locknut seemed to do the trick.

It's not perfect, and I wouldn't expect this setup to endure long, but the idea seemed to work. If you use a zinc, aluminum or steel washer of the same size, and widened the hole enough it would actually probably be a decent spacer and work just fine. A bit on the ghetto side, but it would work in a pinch. Then again, the proper part is probably a better solution!

Check out my Tranny dyno / breakin machine. Pretty awesome huh?

[slotcarrod]

That's way too slow! Get a some compressed air on that spur and get it up to speed!

[Harvey Wood]

have this vintage one too with the same body. Continuously needed that for my child who love this sort of. Spending much time to find like these but no cheaper result.