brushed motor timing

[harvey]

That's right, brushed motors!
A while back, I was running my RC10's on a back yard track, aprox 50'x30'. Needless to say, geared down stock 27t motors were the ticket. (geared maybe 18/85) At the time, the run time with 3800nimh was blowing my mind. The motors got really hot! They were always accelerating around this tiny track, drawing amps and wearing drive shafts. I ran them until they slowed, for 15 minutes straight or so.
So I got to thinking about motor wind, and picked up a 21 turn to run, thinking i'd be able to run less timing than the 24deg stock motors, and maybe with less timing generate less heat. (I was always under the impression that lower turn mod motors only wanted up to 4 deg of timing) Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to test much.
Here is the question for the racers who remember brushed motors; Is there an equilibrium to be reached of torque(turns) vs. rpm(timing) where heat is minimized? Can you get performance equivalent to a 27t 24deg motor by using less wind and less timing, and generate less heat? Or does performance equal heat no matter how you slice it?

[knixdad]

There is a balance you can get by adjusting the timing while watching the amp draw. You can get the equivalent RPM out of motors with slightly different windings at the expense of amp draw and loss in low end torque. You can reduce the timing and lower the draw and in conjunction lower the heat output. However, reducing the timing to a point of trying to match the RPM output of a higher wind motor using a lower wind motor may result in an intractable motor.

[harvey]

Thanks for the insight. So, If one were to reduce the timing on say, a 19t motor to 0 deg, do you think it may not have enough torque compared to a 27t 24 deg? What do you mean by an intractable motor?

[knixdad]

You may get close to the torque of a conventionally timed 27 turn.

What I mean by intractable is that the motor power band may be peak outside of the normal rpm you'll be running at, leading to the motor feeling like it is bogging down at certain points. Like lacking punch when accelerating out of a corner. It feels a lot like turbo lag.