Associated 6 Gear Transmission Rebuild and Bearing Upgrade.

[stingerrray]

This thread is nearing completion. At this point I am just editing and correcting any mistakes. If anyone notices anything that should be changed please let me know..... I rebuilt an Associated 6 gear Tranny in the last couple of weeks. After wading through RC10talk.com I was able to find many helpful posts that had an exceptional amount of advice. I am rebuilding another starting today and from all of the things that I learned on the last one I am going to attempt to document it for future rebuilds. So I hope you can bear with me through this process and if you have anything to add please let me know.

Thanks,
Rob (Stingerrray)

SECTION 1 TOOLS AND CLEANERS.

Here is an inventory of the items you will need

1) 1/4" Nut Driver

1a) Precision slotted screwdriver

1b) 1/16" Allen Wrench or Allen Driver. (These are available at most any hardware store.)

1c) 3/32" Allen Wrench or Allen Driver. (These are available at most any hardware store.)

1d) Cleaning Tool (IE Toothbrush, Scrub brush or my favorite the Sonic Scrubber Pro-Detailer Cleaning Brush available at Walmart, Walgreens, Amazon Ect. It is the most used tool I've ever owned.)

1e) .035 allen wrench (there are several available on ebay ranging from $2.00 to $10.00) A .035 driver with a handle will prove quite useful if you want to spring for the extra bucks. However it may be the only time that you use it. EDS Racing makes one. And my personal favorite and the most durable in my opinion is the Wiha 26343. Choose whatever one you want. But keep in mind that the drivers will work substantially better than the allen keys.

1f) Soldering Iron may be necessary if the idler gear allen screws are tough to remove. This is used to heat the screws to ease removal.

1g) Parts Cleaner. Castrol Super Clean (Walmart Has This) or equivalent. (WARNING DO NOT EXPOSE THIS CLEANER TO ANODIZED PARTS, OR FOR THAT MATTER ANY ALUMINUM PARTS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED IT WILL DESTROY THEM)

1f) Some sort of solvent like Liquid Wrench or WD-40

SECTION 2 PARTS

2a) 6 gear Tranny ready for rebuild (not sure where you will find this your on your own here)

2b) Bearing kit from any company. I ordered them via avidrc.com the first time. I will provide the part numbers from Avidrc but at the time the thread was started they were out of stock on some of their bearings. I ended up ordering them from RCBOYS ON EBAY http://stores.ebay.com/RCBoyz?_trksid=p2047675.l2563. You will need 10 bearings total of the following sizes.

Qty 1) FR168ZZ 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/8 Flanged Metal Bearing
Qty 2) R156ZZ 3/16 x 5/16 x 1/8 Metal Bearing
Qty 5) FR156ZZ 3/16 x 5/16 x 1/8 Flanged Metal Bearing
Qty 2) R1038ZZ 3/8 x 5/8 x 5/32 Metal Bearing

2c) Associated Diff Lube ASC6591 4cc Tube

2d) Optional parts, some of the early 6 gear Tranny's come with white idler gears part #6613. These are prone to failure. Associated made an upgrade kit black #6614 Idler gear set. Also some people take a fried outdrive gear set from this exact 6 gear transmission and make idler gears out of them by grinding the outdrive tube off. This is your choice. I prefer the Black Idler gear set due to the fact that it requires no lubrication in the inside of the tranny and is quieter. This is due to the fact there is no metal to metal contact between the outdrive gears and the idler gears. The problem is the #6614 set is hard to come by. You will have to be patient. eBay is your best choice for these. Or the BST on RC10talk.com if you qualify.

2e) Worn out parts replacement. This can only be determined during dis-assembly. Of course if the parts are worn they will need to be replaced. This requires common sense which most everyone here has. Agian if they are worn out replace them. This will save you headaches in the long run.

2f) And of course the manual! http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/RC10/Team/rc10_manual.pdf

That covers most of what you need to get your Associated 6 gear Transmission rebuilt. Now I will take you through the steps of the rebuild. Bear with me please as I am ordering the parts as needed. I will make sure the whole process only takes 14 days or less. Within that time this thread will be complete.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT ME TO ADD ANYTHING!!!!!!! YOUR HELP IS BOTH WANTED AND NEEDED!!!!

SECTION 3 INSPECTION AND DISSASEMBLY

Take a look at the following pictures. Follow the manual in reverse. This thread will outline the dis assembly, inspection and reassembly process.

On a side note this 6 gear was completely fried. It will rebuilt due to the fact that it was started on for this thread. Sometimes you may be better off getting a good used tranny and starting with it. However one would only know this from tearing it apart!

SECTION 4 ASSOCIATED PARTS LIST

These are associated parts only (work in progress)

6609 Drive Gear Pivot
6611 Spine Plate
6609 Drive Gear Pivot
6610 Idle Gear Pivot
6635 E Clips and Washer for (6610)
6612 Axle Drive Gear (Outdrive Gear)
6630 Transmission Oilite Bushing Set
6900 Bearing Set (outdrive)
6612 Button Hex Screws
6613 Idler Gears (White)
6614 Idler Gears (Black)
6613 Hex Head Screws
6613 Bushing
6299 E-Clip 1/8 Shaft
6618 Diff Shaft, With Left Diff Pinion
6620 Diff Pinion, Left (Small Hole)
6627 Thick Thrust Washer
6606 Bearing Adapter
6617 Diff Tube
6621 Diff Pinion Gear
6623 Teflon Bushings
6625 Diff Drive Rings
6626 Diff Balls
6653 Spur gear
6624 Diff Outer Hub
6628 Diff Spring and Nut
6607 Motor Mount
6605 Transmission Housing
6633 Felt Seal Kit

Upon First inspection The old 6 gear looks a little rough. But I think we might be able to save this one.

One of the outdrive gears is toast. Look at both of them. If they are chewed up like this then replace them both and save for future idler gears.

Hold both outdrives with your fingers and twist in opposite directions. If they dont turn smoothly away from each other you probably have a seized bushing/ bearing or two. In this case they wont even turn. Bad news I'm sure.

Take your 1/4" Nut Driver and remove the Plastic Spur Gear. Being careful not to lose the metal balls from the gear. There should be 8 of the metal balls in the spur gear.

Here is the spur gear and the two drive rings, diff outer hub, diff spring and diff nut. After cleaning they can be evaluated to see what needs to be replaced. AT first glance they look pretty hosed!

Remove this "E" clip from the differential shaft #6618.

Using your 3/32" Allen wrench or driver remove the 3 long 4-40 Hex head screws from the top 3 holes on the tranny case. There is one more 4-40 shorter hex head screw in the bottom hole on the tranny. Remove that last screw being careful not to lose the small hex nut from the other side.

Take out the two felt dust seals from each outdrive gear. There is one on each side. There may be a plastic felt seal retainer. Most of them will be dangling from the rear dogbone or CVD.

Now you can split the tranny case. I noticed something right away while doing this. There is a lot of rust inside and outside the transmission. It becomes apparent that a previous owner. The same one that dyed the nylon parts pink. Dyed the transmission without taking it apart. They just submerged the whole tranny in Rit dye (notice the white areas of the case that the dye never got to). The water got in and fried this thing we will see what happens.

Wow there is a lot of rust in there. I can't tell if the idlers are black or white. But the tranny case came apart pretty easily.

[stingerrray]

Remove the 2 "E" Clips one is on each side of the Idler Gears. Then with a allen driver preferably remove the 2 hex head screws located in the outdrive gears (these will strip easily so if you use a regular allen wrench your chances of stripping will increase). Then if needed soak in a solvent like liquid wrench if the outdrive gears or idlers do not come off easily. This one is going to get a good long soak I'm sure. For the sake of this how to thread I am going to fix this 6 gear. If yours is this bad it may be wise to just find a good used tranny.

Use your 1/16" Allen driver to remove the outdrive gear screws. One on each side.

Here is the spine plate. These parts need to soak in some sort of solvent for a while due to the amount of rust. If the Tranny you are working on is in better shape these gears may just pull right off with little effort. In this case they needed to soak.

All of these gears came off after a few hours of soaking in the solvent. It's important not to use too much force. You could bend the spine plate or the gear shafts. Most will come off fairly easy if you just give the them enough time. Also The drive gear pivot #6609 and the Idle Gear Pivot #6610 are discolored. If you were just replacing with bushings this would be a major problem. However if you are using bearings most of these will be OK. Where you could run into problems is if the bearing center race spins freely on either of these pivots. In that case they would need to be replaced.

It can be tough to get the small allen screws out of the Idler gears. These were rusted quite a bit and the allen wrench could not get a good bite. You will most likely find either the white Idler gears #6613 they are made out of Nylon. Or the Black Idler Gears #6614 that are made out of Delrin. The Black gears are definitely the most desirable. You will need a .035 Allen wrench to get these screws out. I prefer a .035 allen driver so you can get good torque on the allen screws. If you are having trouble getting the screws out I have found 2 things that can help. Number one is keeping the allen tip sharp by grinding it down on sand paper that is suitable for metal. Number two that seems to work well is to heat the screws with a soldering iron for about a minute or so. On these particular gears only 2 screws came out due to the rust. But it is normal to get all of the screws out by applying a bit of heat and keeping the wrench sharp.

Use a small precision phillips screw driver (PH000) and a small (3/64") Precision Flat head screw driver to remove the "C" Clip or ring clip from the outdrive gears. Align the hole in the c clip at the highest point away from your work surface while applying downward pressure with the phillips driver. When a small gap appears at the top between the C clip and the outdrive gear slip the flat head driver in the space. Then work your way around the C clip till it pops out of the groove. If you have a ring compressing tool this small that would be even better. This will then allow the bearings / bushings to be removed.

Take a larger screwdriver and work the bushing or bearing out. Find a screw driver that fits in the hole of the bearing or bushing and work it a bit at a time from top, bottom, left and right till the bushing or bearing pops out.

If a bushing was installed that will be the only thing that you have to remove. However if you already have bearings there will be two of them. One will still be in the outdrive gear. If this is the case then use a flat head screw driver that will fit in the outdrive gear from the opposite direction then move from left to right tapping gently until the bearing pops out of the other side. If it seems to be stuck, soak it for a little longer in the solvent

Here is the outdrive gear with the 2 super rusted bearings removed. If your 6 gear tranny is older or not upgraded there would only be one brass bushing here instead of the 2 bearings. In either case it is recommended to replace these bearings rather than try and reuse them. That is your choice of course.

The diff tube assembly looks as bad as the rest of this tranny. But again with new bearings and in this case the #6627 Thrust bearing assembly we should be fine. The thrust assembly is getting a bit hard to find. If you watch ebay for it this may well be your best bet. Be patient! Another thing to mention about this assembly is the use of heat to get the bushings or bearings off. DO NOT TRY TO USE HEAT! Two things could happen, 1st the teflon bearings may melt. 2nd and in my case the Diff tube may melt. Either way I would like to stress one major factor. ALL OF THESE PARTS MOST LIKELY WILL COME APART IF YOU ALLOW THEM TO SOAK IN SOLVENT LONG ENOUGH! Save yourself some serious cash by using patience.

[stingerrray]

OK, so here is the entire 6 Gear tranny broken down (no bushings or bearings are shown due to the fact that this thread is about a bearing conversion as well). Remember with this rebuild. It may not have been the worst damaged 6 gear ever, but it was pretty bad. Most of you will not have one that is this damaged. So here are the parts that are going to be needed to rebuild this so it will work like factory new. Notice the melted DIff Tube #6617, this could have been avoided if no heat was applied. Also the Diff rings #6625 and thrust bearing assembly #6627 are pitted and cannot be used. So they both have to be replaced. If you look at the picture Below they are at the very bottom. Notice the rough surfaces of these parts. If they are rough on the surface in any way they need to be replaced. The new or old diff rings and thrust bearing washers should have one side of them that is shiny and smooth on their edges. In both cases this is the side that should touch the diff bearings in the #6627 assembly and the #6626 diff balls on the spur gear assembly.

So in order here is the parts that are going to be replaced.
1) 10 Ball Bearings that are mentioned in the first part of
this thread (See side note at bottom of this paragraph). Cost = $13.00
2) Diff Tube #6617 Melted by my impatience. Could have been saved Cost= $16.00
3) Idler Gears #6614 These could be an upgrade if you have #6613
gears. In this case the screws could not be removed from original #6614
so they had to be replaced. Cost = $10.00
4) Axle Drive Gear #6612 (the outdrive was torn up beyond use)
remember these can be used as idler gears so dont toss the old ones out. Cost = $7.00
5) Thrust Bearing Assembly #6627 Cost = $8.00
6) Diff Drive Rings #6625 Cost = $3.00
7) "E" Clips Cost =$1.00

(Side note) I have ordered bearings from Avid RC on one other occasion and got super quick ship. However since the first day that this thread was started they have been out of stock on some of the bearings that were needed for this rebuild. Avid was sent an email to ask them about when they would be back in stock and after a few days they let me know that they would be in within a week. Due to this being my only delay the Bearings were instead bought from RCBOYS on ebay they had them all in stock. I have nothing bad to say about Avid. But the bearings had to be ordered from RCBOYS so this thread can get finished without further delay.

All of the parts are displayed here. Many will get replaced and when the bearings get here from RCBOYS on ebay this tranny will get assembled.

Well here is all of it. The tranny has been cleaned and all of the parts are ready. The bearings are laid out in front of the parts they are going to be installed in. The parts you see here that are plastic will be dyed black in the following pictures none of them will be replaced they will just be Black. Notice the Losi Diff tube, this part is optional and seems to be more available at this time than the factory diff tube. The Losi part does have a bearing on one side that replaced the plastic bushing. It is supposed to help with performance.

Here are all of the new and old parts for the spine plate. Assemble all of the parts in the order they are layed out here. Two of the 3/16 x 5/16 x 1/8 Flanged Metal Bearings Are used in the #6614 Idler Gears. Then you put the 4 hex head screws back in to hold the bearings in place on the Idler Gears. You can opt to use a very small bit of CA type glue here to hold these screws in by placing a very small drop on each screw where the threads stick out of the side opposite of the hex heads. If you choose to do this the screws are not going to be easy to get out. But the manual does say to use it. For each of the Diff Drive gears use one each of the 3/16 x 5/16 x 1/8 Metal Bearings. Gently work each of these down into the drive gear. Be patient here and tap from side to side until the reach the bottom of the opening. Then follow on each one of the gears with the 3/16 x 5/16 x 1/8 Flanged Metal Bearing. Again dont for this, just take your time so you wont damage the bearings. When these bearings are seated right in each of the diff drive gears you will be able to easily install the "C" clips that are pictured here. Finally install the four gears on the appropriate shafts and secure the Idler gears with an "E" clip and the Diff drive gears with the two hex head screws shown.

Here is the Diff Assembly in an exploded view. You are only going to need one bearing here. Insert the 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/8 Flanged Metal Bearing into the #6606 Bearing Adapter. Again make sure not to force the bearing into the adapter just gently work it form side to side. Follow the manual here on reassembly. Also on a side note when assembling the Diff Thrust washers shown here use the smooth sides of the washers both facing the thrust bearing here for best performance.

Use the spur of your choice here just make sure its a 48 pitch. Put the 8 Diff Balls into the Spur gear and lubricate with just a small amount of #6591 Diff lube. As shown in the picture just put a dab on each Diff Ball the press in with a smooth object. Then repeat on the other side. Also put a very small amount of this Diff Lube around the hole in the center of the spur gear that will be touching the Diff tube only.

Here is the repaired Diff assembly with the spur gear. Put the outer diff ring on and then the #6624 Outer hub, Then the #6628 Diff Spring followed by the nylon non slip nut on the end. Make sure on the new diff rings that you use the smoothest surface of the rings against the Diff Balls. Also on the side of the Diff Rings that touches the Diff Tube and the Outer Diff Hub, try and make sure that these surfaces stay clean of any diff lube as the Diff Rings are not supposed to slip on these surfaces. Just the spur gear is supposed to slip. When you put the nylon nut on the end og the Diff Shaft just tighten it up so it is flush with the end of the shaft. When you get the tranny installed this can be adjusted later this will give you a good starting poing for all of the new parts. Now quoting from the manual. Section 81 page 18. Hold the Diff assembly in your hands holding the outside small gear still, and slowly rotate the plastic spur gear. The inside small gear should rotate, and the whole rotation should be very smooth. Now hold both small gears thightly in your fingers, and try and turn the spur gear. It should be very hard to turn. If this is the case most certainly you have rebuilt it correctly.

Now we are going to reassmble the major parts. Get the #6607 Motor Mount Plate And put your diff assembly with spur gear through the plate. Now get one side of the Tranny housing. The one with the hex shaped hole in it. Push the Diff assembly through the plate and into the Tranny housing. Now put the Spine plate and drive assembly in there as shown. It will only fit one way. It is kind of difficult to do this again just be patient. Do not force any parts together. Make sure the bearing adapter is pushing through the motor plate and then seats into the half of the tranny housing with the hex hole in it. The hex hole is not shown on this pic it is on the hidden side.

Now from this view you can see a simple trick. If everything is together correctly you will be able to put this "e" clip on the Diff shaft. Also by inserting the Hex shaped nut through the other side you can tighten the shortest of the 4 screws shown above on the front side. It should hold the tranny together with no excess force at all. If everything is put together just right the two halves of the tranny case should fit together very tightly. The seam between the two halves of the tranny case should be about the width of 3 sheets of paper. If there is any place that is wider than that check and make sure everything is lined up well. If it is not lining up something is wrong. If it does align well then you can now put the last 2 bearings in 3/8 x 5/8 x 5/32 Metal Bearing. In this case I used PolyAmide Sealed Bearings instead which is supposed to keep dust and debri out much better. By not tightening the last 3 Longer hex head screws in it will allow you to install the Diff gears bearings more easily.

As you can see the last 2 bearings are mounted into place and now the last 3 screws are ready to be tightened down. Be super careful inserting these two Diff Drive Gaer Bearings onto the Diff Drive Gears. Take your time. Align the Tranny with the drive plate and tighten the remaining three long Tranny screws into the tranny / motor plate. Now you should be finished. Take a look at the last pic below.

[upforit365]

What size Allen key did you use to remove the outdrives?

[stingerrray]

You need a 1/16". I recommend an Allen driver on those as the will strip out fairly easy.

Stingerray

[longboardnj]

thanks i like to see stuff like this on the site

[Jedi Master]

Gonna be a very useful thread!

[mikea96]

Any updates????

[stingerrray]

Doing an update tonight. I know I said two weeks before thread was done but Avid RC is out of some of the bearings that are needed. When they get them back in stock this project will be well on its way to being finished.

Thanks,
Stinger

[SFC K]

I hope this gets stickied when your done! Great job so far!

[REMJ666]

Building one now...Nice tips...

[suby56]

May want to check this out.

http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=3748

[REMJ666]

I printed that manual...Alot of nice info in there also...Thanks suby 56

[stingerrray]

Suby56, Yes that is a Doc they used to sell at your LHS, as you already well know. It was to make a six gear tranny race ready. This guide is just intended to help anyone whom is interested in rebuilding a 6 gear.

Thanks,
Stingerrray

[tommykart]

Any resources for a diff shaft #6618. just got a new project, the end threads are stripped. I was thinking of trying to rethread it to accept a smaller nut. Any suggestions?