First post! my ultima project and questions

[Triton]

Hello RC10talk forums! i've been lurking on here for the last few days reading everything i can about the first gen Kyosho Ultima that i picked up at a garagesale recently for the tidy sum of $15. here is a picture of it next to a rather rough Tamiya superchamp that my dad picked up from a friend of his, (i'll do a seperate thread about that and a few other cars later on)


The car came with some nice extra stuff too, the original manual and kyosho battery,a few extra parts and a boxed KO-PROPO EX-5 controller. condition wise the car was totally complete as far as i could tell, but the mechanical speed controller has a few burned out traces. now, i'm the kind of person who likes to play with his toys so my plans for this car is a very gradual resto-mod, swapping out a lot of the stock parts prone to breaking with aftermarket parts and stuff i make myself. one thing i'm planning on trying out is making a replica of the roll cage out of 3/16" brass tubing and brass rod thats just a bit less than the inside diameter of the rod. i will posting pictures of that process and the results when i give it a shot

now, i've learned a lot about RCs in general since i've been reading this forum, but i'm very new to the RC hobby in general. i got interested in it when my dad bought a lot of RC cars from a friend of his with the plans to resell them (team losi XXXT, traxxas bandit, rustler, and 4tec, and of course the Tamiya superchamp) and the weekend after we got those cars i came across my ultima, it was fate! to sum things up i'm going to have a lot of questions along the way as i work on turning this car into a reliable durable runner, but i'll leave that for my next post

[vwjuice]

That's an awesome deal. $15? I'm envious. Welcome to the site.

[RichieRich]

Welcome! We have several Ultima fans here even though it's an RC10 board.

[Triton]

i've noticed! your ultima builds have provided a great deal of inspiration for my own build! i dont have much of a budget to work with but i think i can do some great stuff with this car for not a lot of money. now's as good a time as any to outline what i've figured out for this car so far

2.2" wheels (crp 5mm axles from ebay probably) and team losi tires (cheap as chips on ebay)
bearings, bearings everywhere! (gearbox wheels the whole nine yards)
flipped front arms and bracing the front hingepin
upgraded steering (lazer zx5 aluminum parts)
ESC and a new motor (possibly brushless, hobbyking has a lot of affordable options)
possibly new shock towers and shocks
and of course the brass cage and making a copy of the bodyshell
aluminum heim joints where applicable

any suggestions or additions? i'm really open to input on pretty much everything.

[Hcp22]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

If you have a limited budget, then just renovate the car you have for a starter. I know by my own experience that it’s real easy to be carried away, and I know there are lots of guys on the forum that will second that!

BTW: nice score!

[michi]

I'm still shocked because of the 15 $ . As soon as I calmed down, I will congratulate you on this purchase

[Lonestar]

I'm still shocked because of the 15 $ . As soon as I calmed down, I will congratulate you on this purchase

grrrrrrrrrr I hate guys who get this kind of deals

welcome to the forum - the ultima rocks as a piece of history. Not sure you want to make it a reliable runner though... we're still talking a 25 y.o. car that a cheap traxxas bandit will run circles around.

Paul

[RedScampi]

Nice pair of cars you have there! I grabbed my first Ultima for $16 on ebay while no-one else was looking. They are great little cars.

[Triton]

I'm still shocked because of the 15 $ . As soon as I calmed down, I will congratulate you on this purchase

grrrrrrrrrr I hate guys who get this kind of deals

welcome to the forum - the ultima rocks as a piece of history. Not sure you want to make it a reliable runner though... we're still talking a 25 y.o. car that a cheap traxxas bandit will run circles around.

Paul

thats why i love garage sales, you never know what you're going to find! i plan on learning a little more about what customization options i have for this car (all 100% reversible of course) and with what i have in mind it might just be able to hold its own with more modern cars only time (and my budget) will tell. which brings me to my first round of questions!

1. ive done a little research into my transmission options, but what i want to know is how well the car would be able to handle a brushless motor with the stock transmission (cleaned and properly lubed with proper bearings) ive been looking at the EZrun 13.5T 3000kv brushless motor and a 45a ESC, is this a good pairing? and will it play nice with the stock trans? and is the OT74 limiter gear something worth investing in? i know there are alternative transmissions (A&L and kyosho triumph to name a few) but i'm betting these are out of my range

2. ive heard about the ultimas tendancy towards understeer, and having seen richieriches(correct me if i'm wrong) use of the lazer steering parts, will his setup work with a standard sized servo? am i correct in guessing he used the smaller one for battery clearance? the aluminum steering parts are pretty dang cheap on ebay, and since i was already planning on making some other parts out of aluminum (shock towers at the least, possibly top plate and more if i decide to give sand casting a shot) replicating that CF piece (seen here) in alu. should be easy enough

my basic idea with this car is to build it up well enough to make it hard to break, and to be 100% reversible if i decide i ever want to make a shelf queen out of it. its unlikely that it will ever be raced, but RC cars seem to be making a little bit of a comeback in my area, and a tricked out vintage car that can at least hang with the new guys would be fun

[Lonestar]

sounds like a cool project no matter what

my basic idea with this car is to build it up well enough to make it hard to break,

Keep in mind we're talking 25 y.o. plastics here... this car will be more fragile than anything modern, however you prep it or hop it up. Jump landings will be a challenge, even if you get them right.

for perspective, a good, fast, experienced buddy of mine lined up his own Losi xx-cr (1997 or sthing) at a race a few months ago. Well, his fast laps were barely slower than everyone else's, and as he drove consistently (he's been doing rc cars since the mid-80's ) he was always able to keep up... to the 3mns mark. Then, at 3mn, something would break, sometimes even on a very minor mistake! The stuff would just snap for apparently no reason. We went through a-arms, bulkhead, a ballstud, you name it he broke it. I had brought my own xx as parts car to support him and in just a couple of hours my car was put to pieces... Keep in mind we're talking a car from the mid 90's that was built with the very finest composite materials back in the day... You get the idea

Coolest $15 RC car no matter what

Paul

[michi]

Could you please stop, to mention the 15 $ all the time?

[Lonestar]

Could you please stop, to mention the 15 $ all the time?

yes - I can't belive he only spent $15. that irks me too

Paul






























$15

[michi]

Let us search for this garage !! Maybe there's a Turbo Optima for $ 20!? Or a Wild Willy for $ 10, because it looks like a toy !! Aaaaaaarrrghhhh !

[GJW]

15 15 what a bargain

seriously though! welcome to the forum it's a great place so enjoy yourself ok love the picture too buy the way, old school dust is

[Coelacanth]

Keep in mind we're talking 25 y.o. plastics here... this car will be more fragile than anything modern, however you prep it or hop it up. Jump landings will be a challenge, even if you get them right.

I wouldn't be so sure that one couldn't get an Ultima reasonably competitive. The frame was aluminum and the "plastics" that matter--control arms, some of the gears mainly--were glass-filled nylon, not plastic. (I'm assuming those parts were constructed the same way as on the original Optima.) Doing away with all the 5.8mm open-ended tie-rod and ball-joint ends and fitting alloy 4.8mm ball studs & ball cups on some titanium turnbuckles and that Ultima could be pretty tough. I've also read that boiling those nylon parts could actually re-strengthen them.

The limiter gear is definitely recommended for a 13.5T motor, I'm thinking of going that same route with my off-road Barney project Optima.

Triton, you might read through my Project CYANide thread and see some of the modernizing I did to a 25-year-old Turbo Optima. An Ultima would be easier as it's only RWD.

EDIT: If you wanted to really go to town on that Ultima to modernize it, here are some suggestions:

-Upgrade any bushings with bearings;

-4.8mm aluminum ball studs & ball cups in place of all the stock ones;

-Upgrade steel steering & suspension rods with titanium turnbuckles;

-OT-74 limiter gear;

-Upsize to 2.2" wheels & low-profile tires;

-Replace those awful red shocks with Kyosho Golds or modern 3Racing shocks in the appropriate lengths;

-Install ESC, brushless motor, LiPo battery pack.