Handling questions - CE indoor high bite clay

[Lonestar]

The spring/oil combo can be identical and the suspensions can be identical but if the shocks aren't mounted in the exact same locations on the arms, then it's different. Depending on where the front and rears are mounted on each car could be the difference between one car being completely balanced and one being completely unbalanced even with the exact same springs and oil.

indeed - that was my point too.

I didn't comment on your method above - I think it makes sense, it requires a few things that a lot of people don't have to come close to the sweet spot you're after

1- significant wheel time for trial and error sessions
2- handling analysis skills... spotting which end of the car is oscillating too slow/fast vs.the other one might be waaaay beyond most drivers' skills, even when there is no damping in the early phases

I do respect the methodology though - non-standard and, hence, intestesting

Paul

[fredswain]

The easy way to figure out a balance between spring rates front to rear is to remove the oil and just bounce the car on a table. It's pretty easy to see if one end bounces faster than the other. Once you see a balanced setup and one that porpoises, the difference is pretty obvious. This is where most of my setup is done. On the bench. I just go drive it to verify it works. It's actually quite simple. You can also hold both ends of the car down to the table and then let go of one end to see how fast it springs up. Do the same for the other. It's pretty obvious that if the front rockets up but the back is a bit more leisurely that you've got an imbalance. When the car is setup properly, just feeling it by hand you'll think that the front is much softer than the rear. It is. It has to be. That's where most of the weight is.

I do it this way because it was how I tuned RX-7 suspensions for track use. It's how I was taught by a very knowledgeable suspension person who set up very fast cars. These may be RC and can fit in your hand but they are all cars. The physics still apply. It's only the scale that is different. You always start with springs. The fastest people do and the winners definitely do. A good suspension book explains everything pretty well. Is it easier to tune a balanced car or an unbalanced one?

The hardest part with learning is that the info that is given out is very vague. They may say that making one change does one thing and making another change does another thing. Nothing ever tells you how to achieve balance though. It is just assumed that once you setup the car with a few simple changes that you've got it. One you have balance and understand it, setting the car up is very simple after that and what changes to make become very predictable. I work in mechanical design and engineering. I find it funny when some good old boy set in his ways comes in and complains about a design and says we should do it a different way because at a different company "we've always done it that way". Our response is usually that just because you've always done it wrong doesn't make it right today!

[fredswain]

I actually ended up moving the rear link location back to the factory inner spot again. My new location was right below it. I didn't like the wear pattern on my tires but handling was pretty good. Learn how to read your tires! This setting may work for some tracks with some tires but at my particular track I'm not satisfied.

My front shock oil weight keeps increasing. I was finding that the rear of the car was rocketing upward on many larger bumps while the front was absorbing it all and wasn't. At least that's what it seemed. At first I thought that the back was too stiff but the opposite is actually true. The front is too soft. It isn't redistributing enough weight when it hits bumps. By using thicker shock oil in front, the rear end is much more stable now. Strange but true.

Currently still running #2 pistons and 30W oil in back and right now at #2 pistons and 40W oil in front. Going to go up to 50W oil in front and potentially 60W as I don't see the 50W giving me quite what I need. After I try this setup I will probably then go down to #1 pistons instead and then drop back down to about a 25W or 30W oil. I'll probably end up with the #1's. I'd rather have the increased pack for the larger jumps. A #1 piston with 30W oil is basically equivalent to a #2 piston with 60W oil but few holes have greater pack which is better for large jumps while a greater number of holes is better for bumps but less effective on large jumps.

My next issue is tires but everything else is getting dialed in really well. The car is just so easy to drive. I have found that most of the tuning on the car can be done on the bench and in a parking lot/garage with nothing more than a small bump to check front/rear suspension balance. If you set it up well, it will still work well at the track. Only minor tweaks are needed there to dial it in such as tire setup and front end caster.

Tuning from scratch and getting it dialed in, it is becoming apparent that many people do have pretty good oil/piston combinations and pretty good upper link locations. The biggest problem seems to be in front to rear spring balance. This car has been out for over 25 years now. I should hope most of the settings people are using are correct by now!

[JHarris]

I think you mean #3 with 30 would be like #2 with 60. #1 pistons are the largest holes and 3 are the smallest.

Are you racing this car? If so, stock or mod and what are your results?

[fredswain]

Ah crap. I thought I had the shock pistons figured out. It turns out I've got 2 Losi shock pistons mixed in the AE section of my toolbox. I've got a double hole piston in the car right now and a single and triple hole piston in my toolbox. I figured they were all for the same car and logic told me that a single hole was a #1, a double hole was #2, and a triple hole was a #3. Oops! Now I'm a bit messed up. I'm not entirely sure what is in my car now. It's whatever the 2 hole pistons that came with the car brand new is. If anyone knows what that is, it would help me choose a different one from here for fine tuning although I can make them work just fine. I bought this car from a friend and never went through it to see what everything was. I got rid of my first RC10 17 or 18 years ago. A couple of friends got their old RC10's out so I thought it would be fun to have another one again. It wouldn't be fair to race them with the Losi's (sorry guys!)!!! In all seriousness this car has actually been lots of fun and has gotten me back into RC again.


I am setting it up to race. A few of us are trying to get a vintage race together here. I haven't actually raced it yet but running around the track I'm not having my of an issue hanging with a couple of B4's in the corners. I'm severely underpowered by comparison though and they walk me pretty hard on the straight. I am still running old electronics with an old Lightspeed stock motor on a nimh battery. The other guys are running modern electronics and lipos. One car has a 13.5T motor and the other a 10.5T. Handling is all I've got at this point. One of them can't drive all that well. The other guy is a good driver but he bought an RTR car and hasn't tuned it at all. That's about all I have to compare against until I actually get out there in a race. My car is handling better than my friends cars though and we are all comparable in speed. I last raced 20 years ago and my friend last raced about 15 ago so I'm making sure the car is set up very well so I can rely on only my driving to make me look stupid!