Fake parts

[scr8p]

i just want to make it official and say once again that i didnt pay 80 bucks because that shock tower is worth 80 bucks, i payed 80 bucks because it was my only option at the time to complete a build and i simply wanted it more than the other idiot bidding on them.

Exactly. Like you posted earlier, after you bought the piece, another came up and sold for considerably less. So, price isn't even really a justification for bootlegging.

ya, that one was cheaper, but it also didn't come in the package. that was most likely the reason for the lower price.

[scr8p]

and if i remember right, didnt you find one or two of those shocktowers at a lhs a couple weeks after i bought the exotic french version?

yup, i got lucky. if it wasn't for that, the second one on ebay would most likely have ended a little higher.

[badhoopty]

yea, that nip means alot to some people.

in most instances, as long as its clean and in good enough shape for the project in mind i dont care one bit about the package.

[scr8p]

especially since that one was new (the out of pack one), and with the amount of people that were after the one you got, i had expected that one to go higher than it did.

[RichieRich]

If fake parts are okay with you, why do you collect vintage cars?

Discuss.

In this instance, I believe you are referring to collecting for perceived future value. I'm not in it for the money. So, if someone wants to make "fake" rpm shocktowers, I'm fine with it. Plus I seriously doubt they will be so identical that there wouldn't be a way to tell them apart. So many variables: fiberglass color, weave, thickness, machining, etc.

Also, I don't think the market will be flooded with fake shock towers. How many of us are there? A dozen?

[Janus]

To me it really depends an what your plans are for the car.

If your really trying to make a shelf queen, I’d want to be original (Duh)

But if you’re building a runner, would you use always need all original stuff ?? no I could bring myself to run a good shape fully original RC10. I'd much prefer to run an older RC10 and use whatever I can find to keep it running in good condition.

But there are of course people who use repro stuff on restored cars and then put it on E-bay or anywhere else and sell it as full original. But that is the risk of buying online ( not that I’m liking it ).

[Asso_man!]

Holy Graal, mmmh... What can I say? I have also been waiting ages for owning this darn chassis, I sold the first one I found 2 years ago because it was dyed balck and parts were missing, I sold it to a Japanese guy for half the price I bought it. I recently found the one herebelow attached for around 120$, ok it's not NEW and MINT nor it was NIP, and I had to clean it deeply to have what you guys are watching at. Being patient, having the knowledge and being at the right place at the right moment is part of collecting vintage objects, that is for sure IMO; I have been collecting old enamel ads, old cigarets boxes and toys from the 20-50's before I got into collecting vinatge RC and I stopped doing it when I saw prices rising mainly because it was destroying some of my pleasure... Reproducing exactly parts that are getting rarer and rarer is a challenge and will most of the time cost more today than back in the day and I bet there will always be a slight difference, better if intentionally IMO...

Now let's watch at this and reconciliate

[Eau Rouge]

I'm a painter and my life revolves around art. My favorite living painter is Gerhard Richter. You know why I don't own a Gerhard Richter? Because I can't afford to spend a minimum of $250,000 for anything, let alone one one minor painting by my favorite living painter. I would sell nearly everything I own (including any organs that don't keep me alive) just to be able to own a small original piece by him. I have (this is going to sound like I'm bloating) the ability to re-create any of my favorite Richter paintings. But, why would I want to do that?

I understand your comparison, Scott, but would you buy a $50 print of his work for your wall, even if it wasn't a $250,000 original? I love Edward Hopper, and have various prints of his around my house, and that doesn't make the originals in museums worth any less, or further out of my reach.

A reproduction is just that. A replica of the original, intended to offer collectors, enthusiasts and fanatics an opportunity to own something that would otherwise be financially or logistically out of reach. the only problems with repros is when they are passed off as originals or something they are not.


While I wouldn't want a replica of any of these old cars or parts, per se, they are plenty of old R/C items that I wouldn't mind owning if I didn't have to pay the inflated "market value" as collectors continue to lose their minds with pricing.



And to the 5-year long project... I have a couple of them. My Cardinal has taken 4+ years, and my Schumacher CAT project even longer. I could collect a bunch of junk and have all of the parts needed, but I'm seaching for the exact correct items in the proper condition. Until I find those items, the projects sit and wait for those pieces to turn up. Sure you can put together a stock RC10 off the shelf with spare parts collected from various sources, but once you've got one stock RC10, there is a LOT more to collecting and restoring vintage RC cars.

My search for a Houge Top Fuel car has been almost 10 years now, with little or no hint of finding anything. All I'm saying is that everyone's collecting styles and habits are completely different.



doug

[MelvinsArmy]

Doug, I'm realizing that people's collecting styles and attitudes are completely different. However, I don't think many people understand what I'm trying to say, or why I even brought this up in the first place. I still don't understand why if a brand x part is so important to someone, a duplicate of that part is just as good as the original.

How rewarding is it when you FINALLY get that part you've been hunting for for years? I've had the same experience. I was looking for a set of Tecnacraft wheels for over 5 years. Finally last year I got a set, then another fell in to my lap a week later. It was well worth the wait, the wheels are awesome. I don't think I'd have the same feelings about the wheels if I knew they were reproductions.

As far as that print vs original painting thing, that's apples and oranges. A print or poster looks nothing like an original painting. It's like the difference between seeing Led Zeppelin in concert and owning a DVD of that concert. I have no problems with prints or posters. I do have a problem with FAKE paintings being made though. The point I was trying to make with the painting is, I can't afford something I really want, so I don't buy it, and I have no interest in buying or making a fake. A poster will never be mistaken for a painting, not even by a blind person.

RichieRich, I might not be the brightest guy in the world, and I certainly am not a financial genius, but future value is towards the bottom of my list of worries about fake parts. You'd have to be a real moron to invest your money in to toy cars in hopes of increasing your portfolio.

I guess I'll shut up now, as I'm getting tired of beating my head against the wall here. But...

In a few years when you have saved up a few bucks and that prized set of gold Tecnacrafts comes up on ebay and you say "finally, this set is MINE, I'm going to win no matter what." And you get them for $200, thinking you finally did it. Then a month later, after you've left positive feedback for the seller, you post your car on the board to show of your cool new wheels and someone who's been around a while and knows their stuff says, "Those are not Tecnacraft wheels" you might start to understand why I brought this up in the first place.

[badhoopty]

i think we're going to need some sort of repro house here pretty soon to keep the scene alive with builds.

if it gets to the point where everybody is more concerned with resale or profit, well...

i know there are bruiser repros, dont know much more than that... but how are those handled?

[Halgar]

i honestly cant figure out the vibe all the rest of you guys are on. i just like parts to build buggies with. if a shocktower isnt original and has an extra hole drilled in it i wouldnt cry a bit.

Anyone want a non-biased opinion from a non-buggy guy?

I think that a distinction needs to be made here, and that is what the differences are between a "collector", an admirer, and a "runner". A collector wants an OEM original in NIP condition and is willing to wait and pay for the parts they desire. An admirer may want NIP OEM parts, but isn't all that concerned with it, they just really love the rig and want one that's complete. And finally, the runner, where it doesn't matter what the part is, where it came from, or what it looks like, the car gets run, run hard, and needs replacement parts.

IMHO, any non-factory repro should be altered in appearance or material in such a way that any relatively knowledgeable person knows it's a knock-off.

[MelvinsArmy]

Anyone want a non-biased opinion from a non-buggy guy?

I think that a distinction needs to be made here, and that is what the differences are between a "collector", an admirer, and a "runner". A collector wants an OEM original in NIP condition and is willing to wait and pay for the parts they desire. An admirer may want NIP OEM parts, but isn't all that concerned with it, they just really love the rig and want one that's complete. And finally, the runner, where it doesn't matter what the part is, where it came from, or what it looks like, the car gets run, run hard, and needs replacement parts.

IMHO, any non-factory repro should be altered in appearance or material in such a way that any relatively knowledgeable person knows it's a knock-off.

Halgar, you hit the nail right on the head. Thank you.

[Halgar]

I have my moments ...

[badhoopty]

In a few years when you have saved up a few bucks and that prized set of gold Tecnacrafts comes up on ebay and you say "finally, this set is MINE, I'm going to win no matter what." And you get them for $200, thinking you finally did it. Then a month later, after you've left positive feedback for the seller, you post your car on the board to show of your cool new wheels and someone who's been around a while and knows their stuff says, "Those are not Tecnacraft wheels" you might start to understand why I brought this up in the first place.

was that before this board? what kinda wheels were they?

if i made a batch of 10 aerofoil wings, would you want one? and would it really hurt the market that much? i honestly hate to see stuff just go to whoever has the deepest pockets, 'cause quite frankly those peeps arent always the ones who find the hobby the most rewarding for the right reasons. and yes, i realize i'm being a borderline hypocrite.

did this issue come up when those hella cheap losi knockoffs were around?

[Synergy]

I am unable to make my mind up on this one I find it a really interesting discussion. Here is something else to throw into the pot, what about reproductions of full cars such as the Jammin Jay Halsey car that a few members are/have reproduced couldn't the same thing happen with them, possibly sold as originals sometime in the future , they may use all the original parts but have never been raced by Jay is this not just an extension of the same issue, does that mean people shouldn't put them together