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Most likely 500 minimum to make is worth while for MIP. That being said, I plan to contact MIP tomorrow with my request for a re-release. I suggest everyone that is interested does the same.

MIP has no interest in pursuing this. The only way this will ever happen is for a handful of members to take the initiative and invest some time and money into it. It has to be a labor of love. Recovering the cost of reproducing these is a long shot at best.

There may be a hundred guys that say "Hell ya I want 2 for sure!" but when it comes time to pony up the cash I would be surprised if you could sell 50.

500.....well thats just silly.

A couple of observations. Sure anything can be reproduced but you have to ask if it should. The main reason they are popular now is that they are vintage and rare. Anything other than an exact copy is just a a cobbled together kit that is never going to be as good as a purpose built 4wd (B44) or vintage. The kit is complex and figuring out the plastic part is the least of your worries. The gears and drive shafts and pullies will be expensive to reproduce.

Doing this for the love is a noble cause and easy to say when it isn't thousands of dollars of your cash tied into a project. When I purchase something someone has made, I know I'm paying a premium to cover their designand production costs. Any person willing to take on this effort for the benefit of others should be rewarded with a fair profit.

Any person willing to take on this effort for the benefit of others should be rewarded with a fair profit.

I agree, but if it is too expensive no one will buy it.

8rad wrote:I agree, but if it is too expensive no one will buy it.

This is exactly the reason it hasn't be re-released by MIP and hasnt be reproduced by someone else.

This was an expensive kit back in the day. After you bought the $125 transmission, you needed to spend another $175 for the 4wd conversion. The conversion and tranny were more expensive than the RC10 buggy. These were 1980's dollars so that would translate to about. $500 kit

Reception:
"Hey Eustace, we have another guy wanting us to repro the 4-10!"

Eustace:
"Thats the sixteenth call this month, tell him to piss off!"

Reception:
"I am sorry sir, the 4-10 has been discontinued for twenty years. The molds have been destroyed and it simply does not make business sense to re-introduce this product line. Thanks for your interest in MIP products."

shodog wrote:
This is exactly the reason it hasn't be re-released by MIP and hasnt be reproduced by someone else.

This was an expensive kit back in the day. After you bought the $125 transmission, you needed to spend another $175 for the 4wd conversion. The conversion and tranny were more expensive than the RC10 buggy. These were 1980's dollars so that would translate to about. $500 kit

I thought we went through this before.

There is no actual proof that the kit is rare. If so, show me and everyone else so the $1000+ these things fetch today can be justified. And how many have we seen pop up for sale in the last few months? Several. I'm sure MIP made more than a handful of Legend kits in the early 1990's, considering they need to produce between 500 and 10,000 of them today to be profitable, according to other posts in this thread. They weren't individually numbered or sold as a special edition. They were sold for several years and didn't seem very exclusive at the time.

And just for the sake of comparison, the TrackMaster Equalizer Signature Series dirt oval cars were sold in a limited quantity of just a few hundred, both belt-drive and direct-drive, with an individually numbered tag. When these cars do come up for sale, NIB kits have sold for less than half of a mass-produced used RC10 kit with a mass-produced used MIP 4-10 Legend kit attached. Explain that.

You didn't need to buy the SP-1 tranny for the Legend kit, so that's not really an argument. The kit was selling for $139.99 from everyone who had them according to my old magazine ads. And a few years later they were being sold for half of that amount. Even Rick said the hobby shop where he worked had a hard time unloading the leftover kits.

I would be willing to bet that MIP sourced the belts and pulleys from another source like SDP-SI, which is where you can still get them today. The shafts and front gearbox gears may be the only parts that would be difficult to reproduce/source, but I'm sure it could easily be done by someone with the right equipment. These kits weren't designed by NASA engineers and didn't use material made from unobtanium. So I know they could be reproduced with stronger materials at an affordable cost today by someone with the ability and equipment to do it.

i think "rare" is used VERY loosely when it comes to stuff that brings in 'arm and leg' money. there's always an idiot that uses "rare" on a item because THEY couldn't "find it" or they didn't do their homework. and now suddenly you have everyone and their moms using it on ebay or anywhere else. that's primarily the reason why these parts go for ridiculous money. tecnacraft is a good example of this.

not every shop is going to be selling the 4x4 kits equally. shops within range of a track would obviously be selling the 4x4 kits more, than a shop located out in the sticks. and of course other issues come in play. the old hobby shop that i went to had 3 kits and a load of parts for the 4x4 kits sitting on the wall for years. but right down the road another shop (with track) had nearly the same inventory and they sold out almost right away. that same hobby shop also had a lot of rpm, andy's, and hot trick crap that didn't sell for a number of years. and it wasn't because they had them in abundance.

8rad wrote:Reception:
"Hey Eustace, we have another guy wanting us to repro the 4-10!"

Eustace:
"Thats the sixteenth call this month, tell him to piss off!"

I had a long chat with Eustace at the Cactus... I highly doubt he would say anything even remotely close to that.

Yes, I asked him about the 4-10... He laughed and told me about the one that sold for $1000 recently on ebay.

Mkay Doods, here is Da Skinny:

I just got off the phone with Eustace from MIP, who remembered me luckily, and long story short he does not think there are enough buyers for Legends kits to make it worthwhile for his large operation: However, he gave me his blessing to reproduce them, and said if I had a question, etc. just give him a call-By all accounts, a really nice chap, for sure. He could not forward scematics since they were not digital then, and he'd have to dig up the papers, so suggested I borrow a car from a member & reverse engineer it, so that's the way to do it. All he asked is that I not call it a MIP product, fair enough! So in the future I shall refer to the product as 'Oswald'.

Anyway, it all comes down to: Who trusts me enough to send a complete car with a complete, mint Legends kit for a while? Belted, I think, is best, but inform me about any different versions, etc. so I can make the right one. I am very serious & trustworthy, as you can tell by my avatar, so you won't even have to check Ebay while I have your car. I can't PROMISE these, but it'd take a major hurdle not to do 'em, and I don't think that'll be a prob. Chris REC

Orange wrote:... He laughed and told me about the one that sold for $1000 recently on ebay.

toyranosaur wrote: I am very serious & trustworthy, as you can tell by my avatar, so you won't even have to check Ebay while I have your car.

It's easy for me to say since I don't have one that I have to offer up, but he seems trustworthy to me since he has a great sense of humor!

This thread may actually be getting some realistic excitement pumped into it for a change!

You can borrow my buggy but it's not a legends kit. it's the second generation 4wd kit where as I would consider the legends a third generation kit.

I had a long chat with Eustace at the Cactus... I highly doubt he would say anything even remotely close to that.

That was supposed to be a joke. I guess it wasnt funny.

I am sure he is a top shelf fellow.

Anyhoo.......back to the regular scheduled programming.

You can borrow my buggy but it's not a legends kit. it's the second generation 4wd kit where as I would consider the legends a third generation kit.

Whats the difference?

8rad wrote:Whats the difference?

Quite a bit. For starters the legend utilizes the stealth so there is no need for the MIP tranny. The front case is a different shape. The front drivshafts are longer. Not sure what the front drive gear is. Whether its a ball diff like mine or a one way diff

I would be interested if the price were under $200.

Thanks for leading this - very cool if it works out.